Wow. Just sat down and made an accurate count.

Today is Day 42.

I'm almost halfway there. And I'm not even consciously sure about the details of how/why/when I got here. (Where is "there" anyhow?) Sorta like waking up after a 70-year dream and finding a different world around me.

I just found some WOH posts of guys at about the same point in the count as I am. More similarities than I'd wanted to acknowledge in how it's going.  I'll need to stop by and post there when I get some time. Offer them some chizuk. I wouldn't describe this is as "PAIN shared is halved" but perhaps as CONFUSION. Lots of mental confusion, lack of focus, tired body.

HKB'H works in very mysterious ways. This time, though, I wish He'd offer a bit more of a clue.

I see this place is a little lonely.  I have had many times where i felt that way when at least one or two people were posting.  Glad your doing well.  Keep on trucking and stay positive.

Briut, amazing. Thanks for the inspiration.

I want you to know that i read almost all your posts, but most of the time dont have much to respond. they are usually so on the mark!! But we are following your progress adn are really happy that your maing it far. And i think i suffer from that pms thingy too!   :D :D

Day 43 (I count from sundown). I've been thinking recently about one question I find quite interesting.

What's the common ground for admission to this site? In other words, I see heavy infusions of a required "addiction to p**n and m**n due to unfettered exposure to corners of the 'net" for folks to be seen as 'belonging' here. I've been having a difficult time putting myself in that box. So I've been wondering what the required admission criteria are supposed to be.

Something came to mind.  I struggle with many of the words I mentioned above as the required infusions. Largely with the word "addiction." But I do see one word that is related to this and which I must acknowledge.

Compulsion.

I definitely get compulsive about certain urges in life (not just this) and occasionally even obsess over them. If you'd ask me if I have compulsive behavior in the area of sexuality-not-al-pi-halacha, I'd have to say yes.

(Or, at least in my most quiet and personal moments I'd whisper 'yes' to myself. Even if I publicly declare that this compulsion is no different than any red-blooded (frei) American teenage male typically just referred to as h**ny.)

So there, that seems simple. If a "compulsion" is enough to be welcomed on the site, then I suppose I'm not a poseur after all but a qualified member. I don't know, and thankfully might not need to know, if I am compulsive about my sexuality the way other people are about: sex, alcohol, liquor, violence, bad jokes, having the last word, whatever. If I feel obsessive or compulsed, then by definition I'm not making conscious and informed choices. And therefore I don't really know what I'm doing.  And therefore I'm not living an informed life. Which means I've got to consider the alternatives.

Guard, maybe you knew what you were doing when you moved my thread to this Wall rather than just a post about breaking free. Darn it.

Common ground for admission to this site, is a desire to improve one's self in areas of shemiras ainayim, sexuality, or simply put kedusha. We don't tell people "Hey your not a real addict! Come back in a few months after you've really screwed yourself up, then we will let you in"  We are more then happy to assist somebody before they become addicted. or even if they think they are not addicted just involuntarily compulsive.

Me3 wrote on 24 Feb 2010 15:14:


Okay okay, M-cubed, maybe y'all don't really say "you're not a real addict." You just say, "you're an addict deep into denial; stay for a few months and we'll show you that's really screwed up."

Recovery loves company, I suppose.

C'mon c'mon guys, this is a taunt designed to get your fingers flying! Plus, your mother wears army boots! And, you couldn't tell the difference between Woodford and Jack Daniels on a bet. And....

Youre a self absorbed jerk!

(Maybe I should modify that for the benefit of those who couldnt access the other conversation that inspired the comment. I don't know where kedusha's head is today I thought he would have deleted already anyway)

Me3 wrote on 24 Feb 2010 16:41:

Yes, I understood that it was a different person's trail entirely that inspired your 'jerk' comment. No sweat.

I'm SOOOOO tempted to add some witty retort but good taste wins out.  Pity, there are SOOOO many possibilities. But I can't keep myself from suggesting: if you'll show me your (post from that other thread being deleted) getting deleted, I'll show you mine getting deleted as well. [I doubt that would be triggering speech to 9 out of 10 of us.]

And I just reminded myself:
I'm not supposed to focus on what I'm NOT thinking about.
I'm supposed to focus on what I want to be thinking about INSTEAD, and let that push those other thoughts away.

Breathe.

Its a big Yesod you speak of Briut. I dare anyone to not think about elephants for 5 minutes and see what happens. Its impossible unless you drug yourself. But tell yourself to learn Torah for 5 straight minutes without saying what not to think about and you end up not thinking about elephants for 5 minutes. As soon as we tell ourselves to ONLY think about God, then by default we are not thinking about lust. Thats a good excersize. Take 5 minutes and only think about God. And maybe everyday/week increase the amount of time. This way at say 10:05 every day (for example) you will ONLY be thinking about Hashem. I am going to try that I think.

Thanks for the Chizuk Briut.

-Yiddle

I've just started Day 49.

The physical part's doing fine. A little tougher when my wife is niddah (I've now played that cycle twice. It's a slightly different experience with this kaballa than without it.

[I think I'm playing this little game with myself entitled, this is not an addiction and I can prove it by not having a filter and still staying away easily.  The physical part still seems to be holding up well.  Staying clean. Strange invention, this thing called a mind....]

The impact on relationship with wife is doing fine. We're talking well, we're relating well, I'm still having moments when I want to say "And then, your honor, is when I killed her" (a comedy routine; I guess you had to be there) but I think our partnership is robust.  HOW CAN GUYS ON THIS FORUM SAY THEY HAVE A GREAT MARRIAGE AND THEN NOT TELL THEIR WIVES OF THEIR ADDICTION OR POSTINGS OR WHATEVER? To me, that ain't a great marriage at all....

Other parts of parnassa, parenting, financial life generally (IRS bill today), etc all weighing in just enough to show me that this 90 day period is Not The Usual Thing.  I don't know what else to say.

So, what's my problem?  I don't see any right now. Is THAT a problem??  Well, that's all I got for now.

I think that it's great that you're working on bringing your lust purely into the realm of love.

You know, I'm thinking that this issue of 'lust vs love' (why the versus??) is a big deal in my current chapter of life's work.

I'm just thinking that it might not be a piece to work out on this forum.  There is lip service to the idea that frum men facing sexual issues based in part on internet p**n etc are welcomed on the forum, whether or not meeting the description of a sex/lust addict.  I haven't found that to be true. I feel there's lots of group support for guys whose anaphylactic allergies make even one clean day a big accomplishment and possible only through that level of group support.  I'm not finding much of a kindred spirit in folks looking at love, lust, sex, meaning, dveikus in a more general sense. Even if the cases do involve P&M etc.  I'm certainly not finding that the guys who were happy to post when I still needed to Introduce Myself are still interested in following now that I'm seeing my issues as more generic than any specific addiction as mentioned on the Wall of Honor.

I'm not about to leave the Forum, although I suppose I'm getting motivated to look elsewhere for the kind of feedback, support, etc that might support my walk into a next level. 

So, part of me wonders -- can I survive without lust and do I want to?

I'd say that there's a more simple reason why you're not seeing as much support - the more personal the issues become, the more difficult it is for others to understand, relate, and most importantly, offer valuable advice. It's also difficult for everyone to cheer you on, because the goals are much more nebulous.

No matter what, though, I think that everyone supports your desire to grow.

Can you survive with lust? Yes. Well, without Lust, but not without lust. In other words, as long as you have some lust, properly channeled through love, and used in love's service, I think you're fine - even though it may seem like it's impossible.

Like I've said - before I started my journey, I never would have dreamed I could have as much success as i've had!