Oh, yeah. That story from real life.  Okay, it's like this.

"He Thought Dying Was Okay"

We spent Sukkos in J'sm, kept 2 days yomtov, and ended up with yeshiva bochrim from all over who needed a second day meal. Our sukkah somehow expanded to the challenge, and I was presiding over a lunch with a dozen guys who shared very little except the need to observe yomtov.

There was some kinda "security situation" in E'Y and many parents had asked their kids to come home, while their Roshei Yeshiva typically said to stay. This put the boys in a terrible situation, and I decided to poll the table and see where everyone was "holding."

The stories ran the gamut: one is leaving for home, another is staying but promised to avoid buses... etc. Then one guy spoke up. His long curls were tousled, his kippa shruga was a little the worse for wear and hanging off to the side. His cynical smirk was almost palpable when he started to speak.

"Naah, I'm staying here." End of story. But I decided to draw him out a bit:
> "What do your parents say?"
"My mom is okay with whatever I tell her."
> "Does your rosh yeshiva say anything?"
"No, but he says I can stay."

The conversation wasn't going anywhere, and frankly I was about to move on from this angry, one step from the streets, flippant young man. But I tried one more time, and got the whole story.

"I found this yeshiva about six months ago. I had been out of yeshiva for a long time. Sorta left a lot of places. In some, the rabbis were a bunch of hypocrites. In some, they just didn't like me. In some I couldn't keep up. I dunno, it never seemed to work.

"Then I came here and was gonna just live in J'sm. But I found this place. And the rabbis have this great torah. And it's easy to learn from them. And they love me. And suddenly I can be a Jew again. And I was feeling so dead. And now I'm finally feeling alive.

"I'm not leaving this place for anything. And my Rosh Yeshiva would never ask me to leave this place. Never. And my mom, well she is so happy that I'm here and doing well that she said she'd be on my side in anything I decide to do with this war.

"But I'm not worried about some security situation in another part of the country. It will never hit J'sm. It will never hit any of us. But that's not the point. I finally found a home in Torah. And I WOULD RATHER DIE THAN LEAVE IT. I'VE BEEN THERE, HALF-DEAD. i'M NOT GOING BACK. SO I'M NOT GOING ANYWHERE. I'D RATHER BE DEAD THAN GIVE THIS UP.

That kid who had almost convinced me what can go wrong in the yeshiva world had just reminded me everything that can be RIGHT. When I could finally wipe the flowing tears from my face and turn to him again, I thanked him for making my entire trip worthwhile. And I meant it.

Anyhow, I just thought of this story because it reminds me that our work has no end, and that it's beautiful enough that life without it isn't worth living. I might not enjoy all the hard work I see ahead of me, in GYE and many other areas of life, but I'd rather die than miss it. Truly.

I know a chassidishe yid with about twenty years of sobriety in SA who said that when he talks to Hashem one of the things he says is: "...and Tatty, if you see that I really cannot stay sober at any time then I ask you please, please, to just take me already! Please, just take me right away. I don't want to live a life without sobriety, at all."

The story you wrote is deeper and more broad than my shtikkle, but it just reminded me of it. Thanks for another nice piece to read and think about, fellas.

Thanks, Dov. Nice thought.

I think I'm gonna have to go back to my last week or two of posts and review. I'm guessing there's lots here for me to remember -- both my own posts and especially the others commenting.  Hmmnn.

Beautiful story.  thanks for the post.  How ya doing?  Crisis pass?

Briut,

Thanks for that story and bringing it back to what's going on here at GYE. As most of us do, I have almost daily interaction with Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva for various reasons. Last night I attended a wedding in Cleveland together with around 700 others...so my anonymity is still solid...anyway, it was a wedding of two powerhouse Rabbinic families and I used the opportunity to poll the different Rabbonim at the wedding about internet porn addiction.

When I tell you that every Rov, yes every Rov had multiple stories I'm not lying. I begged and pleaded with each Rov to please send their mispallelim to GYE and to support this very chashuv program. I came close to admitting to one particular Rov about myself (I know he has suspicions right now...but that's ok) but I think it's important that we as a GYE community at least speak about the issue to Rabbonim we know well and encourage them to encourage others to join us.

Honestly, I thought I was alone as my screen name says. I literally thought I was the only ben-Torah who had this addiction. I thought that curbing that addiction was impossible. I thought that Hashem hated me...but because of this forum, because of this ability to share the truth...I'm have now completed 31 days of cleanliness...some better than others...but let me share what I have done:
I have internet filters on my laptop (chavursa has the key)
We have a strong internet filter at home (wife has the key)
I have downloaded a filter for my Iphone...working on it, but the browser is weak, b"H
I have increased my tefillos to Hkb"H, because I have learned that Hashem really does love us all no matter how "bad" we've been.

What have I not done:
I have not intentionally searched on line for porn
I have stopped looking at trigger web sites, including FoxNews
I have not watched any porn in my hotel rooms
I have not attempted to seduce any women in hotel bars
I have been good (not great, but pretty good) at not looking at scantily clad women.

All of this I have done or not done for the sake of gaining closeness to my creator and my loving family.

This is a marathon and not a sprint, I have learned...we're in this together, forever.

Thanks guys and thanks Bri for inspiring this post.

Y

Briut that story was wonderful! thanks for sharing

This is terrible. But (honesty here)... I just wanna .

I've been really good for really long. I just want one little fix for old time's sake. (Okay, maybe not so 'little' - maybe I want a 24-hour superfall to really get it out of my system.

I'm sure I'd get right back on this horse and could ride it even further than I did last time.

Now, I KNOW with every ounce of knowledge of every 12-step program in the world, that any rationalization to return to unwanted behaviors is simply WRONG. I know that. But I've forgotten all the reasons against trying to buy myself another 90 days, or 180, or forever by having a little time to act out today.

Would someone like to drill (some sense into) me? Offer a little chizuk? Banish me from the forum for being such a kofer? Maybe just... give a little perspective and help?  Buy me a drink? Thanks.

Ooh...yummy....thanks. I loooove 'k'firah'!

Ok, please bear with me...

Once upon a time, my wife convinced me of something that came as a bit of a shock. I always thought that what she doesn't know won't hurt her. Well, OK, I always knew it was a bad idea for me to 'go off' and do whatever...and that it'd be a very bad for her to find out about it. But I also felt sure that it was just my own little business and ultimately no big deal (I'd eventually work it all out and clean up my act someday) - unless and until she found out about it. Then it'd ruin everything and become a really horrible matter. I felt I had to keep everything secret and protect our relationship from her dangerous meddling and destructive overreactions.
BTW, practically every other guy I have met in this mess has told me they essentially have the same credo.

Then I got found out, my @$$ kicked, and it seemed that the entire show was over. But I still kept acting out (secretly again) for about a year until I was given the feeling that I needed to quit just to save my life. Fast forward about two or three years' sobriety and recovery....

I was telling my wife something like, "it's really none of your business what I do - it's my own." She then dropped this bomb on me: She told me that the damage of my acting out did not really occur - as I believed - when she found out about  it. Rather, all the damage really occurs while I am acting out. Her finding out is really just the heicha timtza. Suddenly she's a lamdan....go figure.

Anyway, I came to see that even though what she said seemed to me at the time to be just more 'ravings of a scorned woman', she was actually right! There is inescapable residue within me whenever I act out, even partially. Every single little lust I intentionally take into myself has an effect and there is no escape. Well, at least there ain't no easy way out (Steve Miller band?). I've gonna pay the piper for every penny I withdraw in the lust account. It will change my attitude towards the other people in my lives, change my relationship with my G-d, alter my sensitivity toward others people privacy and boundaries and humanity, blind me a bit more to the preciousness of my actions and choices, the meaning of my body, etc., etc....I can come out of it! But will have to pay the price...do I want to pay that price? Or do I want to just keep all the good stuff I have inside and reality that I am living? What do i want? That's the only question that matters to me, really. I am an addict and even though I am trying to be a frum yid - concern for what's right and wrong just isn't my index when it comes to lust. I cannot trust my judgment of right and wrong when it comes to lust. It's gotta be all about selfish concerns - like losing my sweet and real connection with Hashem and with all the people in my life. Selfish works for me.

So, if you stuck with this megillah, thanks, and I hope you see my point: That we are forever free to experiment! But will have to pay the price for straying from truth, from G-d, and from the reality of our relationships in order to do that. And we start paying it right from the first instant that we begin to stray - getting caught or getting 'into trouble' is only the icing on the cake. There is no cheating when it comes to integrity...at least not any more. Awwww.... I hate that! 

Hi again.

So a veteran asks to have some sense drilled into him.  Another lesson in humility, in keeping it simple and honest.  And again, thanks for sharing yourself, unvarnished.

Nu, you gave me permission to post.  I think I could get pretty big for my britches, but since I have pretty small britches that'd be easy to do I guess.

"I've been really good for really long."  Ooooh, I know this one.  I've worked such a hard day, I'm so tense, I can't sleep, I...I...I... .  It's the buildup that I just can't believe there is any relief for. The phenomenal craving I've learned we all know about here.

What to do with our entitlement.  I'VE been very good?  I'VE???  You've taught me many times, I am powerless.  I do the effort, but H" keeps me in the safe zone.  My trying is so puny.  I can feel the pressure starting to build, and in a few days I'm going to be screaming out for your help.  WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO ME??  (maybe say it now, maybe I won't have to shout)

You are still the man.  My little beginner's counsel is mostly what I've read other guys saying.  Maybe in my own words it might help.  Forget about "for really long".  There's today.  "Really long" doesn't exist. There's today. 

Tatti, Tatti, just for today.

1daat wrote on 11 Jun 2010 05:43:

dov wrote on 11 Jun 2010 03:24:


1daat: thanks for posting and the insights. They're helpful.

Dov: Ouch. Thanks for the slap on the face. I needed that.

So... Maybe... It's not about the (palpable) harm AFTER the act; it's about the (hidden, spiritual) harm DURING the act and even in thinking/preparing for the act. Harm that I don't see when my head's gone soft. And maybe maybe maybe the painful thought is actually true: that "I cannot trust my judgment... when it comes to lust." Ouch beyond words. Yet... thanks.

Briut

Now maybe you can see why I (and many others) are in awe of Dov? (Especially since he dropped the dovish and started writing in english).

Zug garnisht. Er tracht mir lernen ihm Yiddish! (Don't say anything to him. Dov thinks we're teaching him Yiddish. It's sorta like an old joke about the recent Chinese immigrant who's a waiter in a Jewish neighborhood.)

(Which reminds me of another funny saying: A joke is like a frog: if you start to dissect it, it's dead.)

Good Shabbos, all.

Briut wrote on 11 Jun 2010 14:14:


So mir beiten du: dissect mir nischt oichet! Ich bin eineh zexacholic, un fehrtig!

A Guten Shabbess!

What do the following have in common:
1) a dissected frog.
2) a Chinese waiter in a Jewish restaurant.
3) a lost little lamb trying to substitute something good for the desire to act out, yell at his wife, or run from his issues.

Answer: I have no clue. But I wish everyone a Good Shabbos Rosh Chodesh anyhow.

Briut wrote on 11 Jun 2010 15:42:

frogs belong in the water, chinese waiters belong in chinese restaurants(or China?), and lost Jewish lambs belong with their Shepherd (Hashem, and l'havdil, Guard, or Dov?)