GRRR!!!

what i kjust wrote all got deleated, for whatever reason HBH wanted it to happen, actually i shouldnt be angry...who am i to judge what HBH knows is best...

HBH knows its best for oyu to stop...

but u want a reason...go to the gedolei haGYE for that (lthough ur uptheir so remeber why u started!!!)

when i write a list of the feelings of cleanliness(even with the disadv. such as the desire to be pogom my bris) against the feeling and state of being in the mist of impurity (inclu. the awful feelings, black marks on my neshoma etc and even the satisfied physical side....) no question which one prevails...why do we fall then... the yeser hara is stron mate...

my rabo told me when the big guys get upstairs, the ones who have really battled with ther yh they see ts like a mounatina and cannot belive they conquered it!

when the rashayim get up there they see their tiney yh and realise how evil they were ... yours is huge!!!look how far youve come...so why stop...dunno mate...BUT STOP!!!

jamie wrote on 07 Jun 2010 21:00:


wellcome to my world!

jamie wrote on 07 Jun 2010 21:00:

Yeah, I know the analogy. But since I'm struggling today to figure out WHY I'm still doing this, it's hard to grasp HOW I'll keep the y'h at bay. If he shows up with a convertible and a suite in Atlantic City, I'm afraid I'm gonna grab my lucky dice and go.

But thanks, Jamie, mate, for looking for a chizuk in the Torah to share on a day when my head is spinning with non-Torah propositions.

Aargh. Day 92.

Just my perspective Reb Briut. But is not this question that we need to answer all the time? Maybe it is not so clear? They say, we should make a dwelling for Him on the earth. Does this mean that we are ment to be closer to Him, closer to our wifes and closer to ourselfs? Are we not already close? Then truly you ask how, how do we get closer? How should we make a dwelling?
Funny, I think wenn we fall, then we know exactly why and how, as if we had plucked that apple in the Garden of Eden, thus much became clear. We forced it and it was not the clarity that we are after. That clarity destroys life. Much more I yearn for another clarity that seems non-achievable by action, a clarity that comes without our own effort. Is this not why we live? Do we really feel Him or can we move closer? Can we ask Him to come closer?

Please, I am just a beginner, do not take me too serious. I wish you true strength and clarity! Your quenstion arises a yearning in me to come closer to Him and stay clean, so I too will be able to ask these questions from a deeper level that comes with 92 or 93 or 94. I guess this talk truly makes me feel Jewish.

Wow briut! day 92! Amazing man!

I'm still finding my way around the forum so I just came across this whole thread. Deeply impressed over here. Please try and hang on. We're all rooting for you.

You need a reason why????

I think you've been clean for to long. You forgot how badly it SUCKS when you fall!!!

It only looks good from this side of it. I'm on the other side of a slip so take my word for it.

Don't do this to yourself man. I'm davening for you.

BF

breaking free wrote on 08 Jun 2010 07:09:


Thanks for the chizuk, everyone. Truly. I woke up this morning with a better perspective. Whew.

And BreakingFree, I'm sure you didn't realize how the potential double meaning of these lines made me just crack up. But you were definitely Hashem's messenger for a good belly laugh. Thanks.

breraking free has a great point, realise its trueness!!

you said thismorning you felt great, imagine the feeling if you had cv fell!!!....

your a free man, BEZRAT HASHEM i will oneday be where you are... your living the dream matE!!

SO STAY THERE!

jamie wrote on 18 May 2010 14:08:


Jamie, thanks so much for your time and your chizuk. It mean a lot (& thanks to all you mates/guys here). I'm citing some words from your very first post here. It's helpful to me. You see, in some twisted way, perhaps I really would be better off if I felt more guilt or shame or struggle or failure. But I don't.

I have a craving for peace, serenity, dveikus to Hashem and His mitzvos, dveikus to my wife and devotion to the family. But guilt and sh'vuoz and emotional pain... simply isn't a healthy plan for my physical or psychiatric health. I'm just not strong enough for all that. Different strokes for different folks.

If I fell right now, I don't think I'd feel awful. I'd probably feel like it was empty and pointless and stuff. But that could be a good lesson to propel me to the next level. I don't think I'd have nightmares about the billions of unborn neshamas pained by the m'zl. I don't think I'd try to 'counter' it with a teshuva of mikveh or whatever. I'd just wake up saying, "okay, that was pointless. Get back to work."

That's not to justify what at this rate would be, say 4 falls per year. (I could easily have had 4 per WEEK otherwise; what a difference.) One's too much and a thousand's not enough. (AHH, so I should fall 1001!?! Cool! ) I'm just saying that it's a little trickier to stay on track when my thinking is more stuck in my intellect than in my guilt.

Of course, I can also mention that I might have one leg up on some fellow strugglers at GYE. I've been asking HKB'H for some POSITIVE motivators to keep me going, to substitute for the "negative" motivators I seem to lack. "HKB'H, if You want me on-track, please give me a matana (freebie, v'etchanan) to reward me and show that it really makes a difference to You."

And He has. Hashgacha Pratis. Maybe even nes niglah. All regarding gashmius. And all very very clear. So, I don't want to lose the gift, and most of all I don't want to let Him down now that He's told me so clearly that "THE TIME HAS COME" to tackle this stuff. Ki vah mo'ed.

So, my best motivator seems to be, "Since You told me to get back up on the horse, I will. I know this relationship is is MY best interest and of course Yours." Rather than, "What a painful fall. I'd better get right back on the horse that threw me; maybe I'll have a better result next time. I just need to hold on, white-knuckled, for another round." Different strokes for different folks. (aka, eilu v'eilu, divrei Elokim chai.) Thanks for your perspective.

Day 93. Or, also known as "Day 163-minus-1." Or, also known as "Day One as always." Sigh.

You're clean, and that's awesome.

maybe Hashem thinks your stronger and you dont need the gult favtor to add to your stoppingness 9if thats a word!) becuyase your stronger and cleaer hHe tests you more than me, bringing you even closer to him!!!

by the way

93 DAYS!!!!!

MATE THATS INCREDIBLE, PLEASE CAN YOU HAVE A PARTY FOR 100? MAYBE A SIYUM OR IF NOT ENOUGH TIME DO SOMETHING SPECIAL FOR THAT DAY

Jamie, thanks for your support, mate. Truth is, I don't WANT any tests. I certainly don't want any tests to the limits of my capacity for growth. Right now, I want easy and enjoyable and rewarding and fulla-dveikus and fun.

I want to know that staying away from my "former" lust fantasies (and even the realities of them) will be easier than the years I've invested in trying to balance all this conflicting "stuff" in my life into one multi-chambered vessel.

And I want to know it NOW, since my old balancing acts are so familiar and comfortable and I can do them in my sleep (sorry, TMI) compared to the new patterns that are still unfamiliar and often hard (really TMI). And no, I don't think that's too much to ask Him for in my tefilos.

Because otherwise I could become sorta jaded, bitter, even angry, CHAS V'SHALOM, at the Borei haOlam. Because I'd be trading in a sport where I deserve Olympic medals to a sport where I can't find the starting gate. Or, quoting Dov, 18-wheelers and tricycles or something. And I know that HKB'H and I love and care about each other far too much for either of us to want that.

So, perhaps it's back to work for now, but with the explicit tefila that things go from hard to easy. From work to fun. From "rewards in the next world" to "rewards now AND later." Are You listening, Hashem? (Well, duh.) Will You provide it? (Response pending.)

Day 93 or something. (I sorta like the 163-1 formulation, though.)

Okay, time for some more briut-al (ha ha) honesty.

1. OK, LUST HAS TO GET OUT OF THE FRONT SEAT. Fine; I've gotten off that proverbial 18-wheeler where I'm master of my little balancing act of love, lust, career, family, whatever. I've come to grips with the idea that I won't be needing that 18-wheeler. Something smaller and more gentle is better for this terrain. Maybe even that proverbial tricycle.

2. BUT I MISS MY 18-WHEELER. Seriously. I know how to drive that big rig carrying lust, like a master. I put a lot of money into that rig. (Plus blood sweat tears.) It made me feel special and powerful and rewarded. But most of all... that rig was custom made, by me and for me. And I've got to be honest with myself, I'm gonna miss it. A lot. And it doesn't even have any trade-in value on the new torahdige model.

3. I'M STILL TRYING TO BARGAIN WITH HKB'H, R'L. I'm looking for signs, I'm looking for rewards, I'm looking for bribes. I'm trying to set the spiritual terms of my recovery. (OKAY, I SAID IT. The word, recovery. Fine. Brutal honesty -- this process deserves the word recovery. Whatever. I'm still not saying the 'a' word, though.) And of course, I am not the Master of the Universe. Not even the master of my OWN universe. But I'm still sorta running away from Nineveh, hoping I can play Let's Make a Deal with the Big Guy Upstairs. So far, He's been really nice about it but I know He is, as it were, rolling His eyes at my silly worldview.

4.  I'M STILL POSTING COMPULSIVELY. I figure the desire to have dialogue with others is helping me, and might even be helping them. (Geez; what an ego case here!) It might be a distration from my actually "doing the work," but so far distractions have been successful in keeping me clean. The real test might be what happens when I go cold turkey off of posting. Which I'll have to do someday soon, if I'm gonna enough parnassa to keep things going. (See point 3, bargaining with HKBH .)

Okay, enough honesty for one night. I wanna go get some sleep before something happens.

Briut, you've been so helpful to me--reading your thread and your posts to mine.  I'm a total beginner, and maybe it's arrogant of me to offer, but I see myself in certain parts of your posts.  So I'd like to share.

You have urged me to do simple things:  Read, post, 90 day chart, chizuk emails.  Beginners mind is a beautiful thing:  "Sit down, shut up, look straight ahead, and drive".  That's all I know right now.  I don't have a "why", I just have to do this.  I've made a mess of my life.  I can't keep having conversations with H" anymore about this.  I need you, the guys, and my one day today clean.

I hear you want a reason.  I'm too scared to give myself that much room for speculation.  I remember being put in handcuffs, going to jail, the huge expense, the loss of my good name, and the disgrace.  I just can't mess around with denial anymore, and it seems like there's just one layer after another. 

Maybe things are better for you and you wouldn't be at risk like I am.  Maybe he shows up with a convertible and a ticket to Atlantic City.  I don't know a reason for you not to go.  But you could go into your child's room when they're asleep, and look at them, be with them, breathe in and out as they breathe in and out, and then maybe you'll remember what you've said to me--we say "no" not just for ourselves, we say it because the innocence of the kinderlach reminds us that Adoshem zvaot imanu, and we love that sweet preciousness more than anything.  And when my heart is closed, I'll do anything, ANYTHING for a second  of tasting anything that's even remotely like that sweet stuff.  Even if it disappears instantly, and I'm left with a handful of dust.  Not necessarily, as you say, with shame, but with a matter-of-factness that belies our deepest longing, the ache of our neshama.

I once heard a prayer:  "H", let me find in You, what I seek in my addiction".  And when something in this  gashmiut, like our kids, say, puts us back in touch with the Truth, then we've found something worth loving and holding onto in the face of the lights of Atlantic city.  My little beginner's mind felt the wholeness of my broken heart before H", and then I landed here, with you posting immediately that first night, when I didn't need a why to stop.

I get that that probably fades with time.  But maybe my why-less "why" at this time, might touch a chord, and G-d willing be of some encouragement, as you've so encouraged me.

Chazak l'chazak.

1Daat

>>I remember being put in handcuffs, going to jail, the huge expense, the loss of my good name, and the disgrace.  I just can't mess around with denial anymore, and it seems like there's just one layer after another. 

sounds like a good reason to move forward if you ask me.

on a more encouraging note - think about how many people YOU will be able to effect for the positive once you get on the path of recovery... YOU will be so relatable to them... and be able to be a role model and truely be able to say "Been there done it - got over it"


and that is INCREDIBLE!!!

once you walk the walk of freedom - others will look at YOU and say: I AM PROUD OF YOU!!!

you can do it , brohter!


btw - welcome!

I'm Dov (in israel) - not ot be confuised iwth the other one... who is VERY wise and one to learn from!

1daat wrote on 09 Jun 2010 06:12:


Wow. You know, I think I heard a kind of reluctance to post, even a feeling of unworthiness to post. Funny, I see it verkehrt.

I know this work has no "destination" -- it's work for a lifetime. And I feel I've been writing about my path so often that I sorta forget what the "origin" looked like. So my current position gives me no context of the beginning or end. It's ONLY the perspectives of others that can help me find my bearing.

I can't find anyone at "the end" to give me some bearings (since there's NO destination), so I'm counting on the fresh minds standing near the "starting gate" to remind me where the road starts and where I stand. You're my bread crumb trail, my GPS tracking the route.

You may think you have little to say to me, since your count of posts seems lower. But it's really I who have nothing to tell you, because the path you travel is not going to look like anyone else's. But our origins have a lot in common, and sometimes I forget mine. So to me, your willingness to speak up is very precious. Keep posting. Thanks. Really, thanks.

PS: I'm thinking of a true story from my life that reminded me how newbies hold something more precious than the greatest masters. Maybe I'll find time to write it up.