Momo wrote on 16 Nov 2009 19:22:


Momo wrote on 16 Nov 2009 19:40:


You're making some important points, Momo.

I wonder, though: is there any (hypothetical) incentive that would get you to do everything possible - no holds barred - to remain completely clean for 90 days?

Let's use our imagination.  What if the Bill Gates foundation offered you ten million dollars?  Stranger things have happened!  Wouldn't you decide that this is your big chance to change your life (and that of your family and friends, not to mention GYE ) for the better, and wouldn't that cause you to set up multiple safeguards to avoid even coming close to slipping (let alone falling)?

Momo wrote on 16 Nov 2009 19:40:

you're in your black hole, momo.
YOU do want to get better. the part of you that hates YOU just wants to give up.
and yeah, lust is comforting.
this is gonna sound depressing and i hate thinking about it, but it works sometimes: adam le'amal yulad.
we're not here for comfort. we're here to serve Hashem with all that we have.
and it's hard work. very very hard.
and i know you can do it cuz there's no wasy in the world Hashem gave you this addiction and then didn't give you a way out of it. even if it takes years.
Hashem didn't take away your bechira. you just lost a bit of it cuz you're addicted. the less addicted you get, the more bechira you'll have

habib613 wrote on 16 Nov 2009 19:40:


We have a lot in common. I hit rock bottom a lot too. I also feel suicidal a lot.

I don't appreciate Rage's humor, so please keep him away from me.

Gotta go until tomorrow.

momo feel free to call.
anytime.
i got the work downpat now so i have more nergy and time to speak if you need,ever.even if u dont need,but just wanna talk.
sorry i took a temporary hiatus from 24/7 availability.
if im ever busy ill let u know.
u can call now if ud like
i love you man
-uri

Habib, great posts. Thank you, sincerely.

Uri, I'm glad you've gotten better and am moving on with your life. I wish I could move on with mine.

Another 7 posts and I hit the big 500. I think that changes my status from Sr. Member to Hero Member. But I don't like that. I'm no hero. I'm the same dork I was 8 months ago.
This change in status makes me not want to post anymore. Why does posting 500 times make me a hero? Shouldn't being called a hero be based on some sort of action that I've done? Guard, your thoughts?

Momo wrote on 16 Nov 2009 19:45:

k, so good night.
but give uri a call.
and just wondering if you tried the 12 steps?
like boruch's group?
it's at a crazy time for you
but i think you'd like it

Habib, I did the 12 step phone thing with Duvid Chaim.

Momo,
First of all,I love you dude.

Second of all,you're skirting around the solution but not hitting it directly.
The point is not to "wean off" of the lust.

This is the point:
We need of feeling of security/trust.
We don't have that.
So we go to sex.
If we would find security in life/ourselves we would not even be interested in porn.
Real secure life is so so much better than this fantasy fake life.
Look,you(we) don't enjoy it at all.
Rav Shlachter is prob just helping you realize that right now.
Stop thinking about not acting out.
It's not important.
It will happen naturally,I PROMISE YOU.
All this talk about not acting out is stupid.
It's a way of trying to control ourselves.
The key is to let go.
Only by truly living will we feel able to let go.
Please listen to me,man.
You have what it takes.
You've just been trying the wrong things.
Stick with the Shlachter.
You'll be good.
And we're all here to hold your hand along the way.
I love you man.
-uri

chillax, momo.
you don't have to be a hero.

you know how sometimes you call customer service in india and the guy goes
"hello, by nabe eez jerry, how can i help you?
and you're thinking yeah, right, you're name is really rasheeb jamalik
so you're just gonna keep posting and pretend to be a hero, k?

A post from Dov today along the lines of what I wrote above.
There's alot of wisdom in this momo.
Stop looking for results.
Just change in yourself.

Practically speaking, recovery is not about lust at all, just as AA recovery is not about alcohol, per se. It's about us, right? We aren't "lust", are we? It's just that we are so screwed up in the body, head, and heart that we actually act as though using lust will help us out!
Now, in recovery, annoyingly and sometimes painfully using the steps in our daily struggles of money, people, and stuff that happens to us enables many of us to get ourselves out of the way. That helps because self-concern, it turns out, is strangely our worst enemy of all. In fact, it may be our only enemy. Just as an aside, I, for one, do not consider "lust" my enemy at all. I do what i can to stay free of it because using it is deadly for me, yes, but today it's clear to me that Hashem was actually hiding for me, in lust - the very last place I'd ever think to look for Him. He has quite a sense of humor, no?

and listen to uri.
he's smart. just sometimes he doesn't know what he's talking about
no, really, it's just really hard to think like you uri when you're depressed.
so that doesn't work then, at least for me.

My thoughts are that someone here has SERIOUS low self-esteem issues.  

500 posts of striving, yearning, trying, learning, etc... on the world's holiest forum is not enough of an "action" for you?

WOW, Rage can actually write a totally normal post  :o ... (how boring  )

Habib,
I know exactly what you mean.
I am one of the most depressed people I know.
It shocks people so much when they find out.
And it was really hard to just let go and follow Rav Shlachter.
But I trusted him.
We gotta have faith in something bigger than us
and let go.
And that's what I'm trying to do now.
And that's what I'm trying to share.
Don't be afraid.
You got nothin to lose.