Momo!
I love you!!
Lechaim!!
Every time I see your name on my phone,I get excited!
I'm about to talk to one of the sweetest,most sincere people in the world!!!
Gevaldig!!!
Lechaim!
To life!!!!!!!!

Uri wrote on 28 Oct 2009 06:57:


Do you still want to talk? I thought my post was pretty self-explanatory.
If you want to talk, that's OK. feel free to call me.

beautiful post! I may share it in today's chizuk e-mail, if it's Ok with you...

I hope Dov can answer your very good question...

If you want to hear my thoughts, just off the top of my head... I don't think there's a controdiction between Reb Shlachter's approach and the 12-Steps at all. When we learn to surrender to Hashem and build a relationship with Him and get humbler, we will find it a lot easier to build relationships with others and feel good in real life! As a matter of fact, it could be it's the other way around. When we work on building relationships with others in a selfless way, it can help us tremendously to build a relationship with Hashem (who is more abstract), as Dov has said many times before...

guardureyes wrote on 28 Oct 2009 07:20:


Thanks for your response.
I don't mind, but please don't use my "name" Momo. Please write that "someone on the forum wrote...", or something like that. Thanks.
What I wrote is pretty personal, and I have a virtual reputation to protect.  :D

On the mark,Guard!
I hear the second tzad 110%!It's so hard to build a relationship and security in Hashem when we have none in ourselves or in people cause He's so abstract.
Just to add,Rav Shlachter is very into "letting go" or as I like to call it "just chillin".You can only really let go if you feel that a Higher Power is takin care of everything.

110% out of?

out of 100
duh!
i thought you were a nerd,guard?

Last time I checked, there were only 100 in 100, so I figured if it's 110% it must be out of a bigger number, like 110 out of 1000. Which is not so good...

But if you mean 110% out of 100% then we're in trouble. PLEASE don't say you meant that. It's an impossibility, which, if written mathematically could cause the entire universe to warp into itself and self-destruct.

guard,
when i find you im gonna lock you in a closet and steal your huge over-sized glasses.

I don't mind the joking around, if not for the fact someone who reads my thread might start at the end and work backward (like I do). If that's the case, he (or she) might miss my post of the day, and not see the question I asked at the end.

So, here's a link to the serious post I wrote today (one page back): http://rehab-my-site.com/guardureyes/forum/index.php?topic=477.msg25954#msg25954

Thank you.

I was thinking about it. I don't think there's a contradiction between the 12 step approach and the approach Rav Shlachter has for me. One builds a relationship with G-d, while the other builds a healthy relationship with myself. You can feel good about yourself and still be humbled before G-d (have a small ego). Take Moshe Rabeinu as an example.

I think these are just 2 different approaches doing 2 different things, and I probably can do both of them at the same time.

Just my 2 cents.

That's worth at least 110 cents!

Dear Momo - great post, thanks for sharing all that. I don't feel qualified to get into definitions of 12 steps and comparisons to what your counselor is talking about. But I do have one comment. From what I have found in recovery, it seems that the approach we are recommended to take is that we need to love and to give , much more than we need to be loved and to get.
Without twisting our brains into a knot to figure out how it all works (cuz giving, loving, and being loved are connected, of course), I like to keep my focus on giving for free and for fun, not for the relationship or for anything else. Then I allow things develop as they develop.
The growth Iv'e had so far (and freedom from lust - my desire in me, for my pleasure) stems much more from the giving I have done than from the approval and love I have recieved. Nu, that's my opinion. Getting better is ultimately about growing up, it seems, not about feeling good. But hey, how bad can we feel if we are growing up, giving, and free of lust?!  :
Just my 2 cents, too. Chow!

Momo wrote on 28 Oct 2009 12:23:


I agree with your 2 cents

If you climb Everest, you have every reason  and right to feel pride at your accomplishment as you look down and see how far youve come. Yet, at the same time, looking up towards the peak is still humbling realizing how much more is still needed.

As for friendships, you be the kind of friend you always wished you had. Giving is getting

Hi everyone,

It's been a while since I've posted, and I feel it's time for an update. so, here goes.

Yesterday I PM-ed this to someone (with slight editing):
------------------------------
To be honest I don't feel like writing on the forum anymore, and I hardly visit it (but PMs go to my email which I check and read). I feel as if those guys are in a different stage than I am now. Not that I'm on a higher level, Chas Veshalom. I've been falling a lot, and for some reason I've stopped caring. What I mean is that I think I need to work on different issues than they do. You once wrote to me that I first need to work on the depression before working on the acting out.

I'm working on building a stronger relationship with my wife. My wife and I both went to Rav Shlachter last week (he asked me to bring her). We spoke about what I need from her (love, not sex) and what we can do together to help that.

I'm also working on feeling content and not depressed by trying to do things that are fun for me.

Somehow I'm not working on the acting out. I really feel "fell shmell", even though when Bard says it, I don't think he condones acting out and not caring about it.

I know I should try to put in the effort to stop looking and acting out, but I really don't want to because it's hard, and I don't care that much anymore. Fighting the fight adds stress, and I'm trying to live a stress-free life. However, I hope in the future I'll change my mind and go back to the struggle, but I guess I'll have to do it when I'm ready.
----------------------------------

Well, last night I saw Rav Shlachter again. I told him about my week where I'd act out almost every day. I felt that I was giving up and not even caring or trying anymore. Wasn't it enough that I am spending more quality time with my wife (as a result of last week's session)? His answer was NO.

I voiced my opinion that maybe I should stop seeing him if I continue acting and acting out this way. He agreed that if I don't take his advice and act differently, I'm just wasting my time and money. We agreed that if I don't make an effort, (and we agreed that for now I must stop surfing mornings), there is no point on my seeing him. He can't help me if I don't help myself. Thinking that I want to change is not enough; I have to put it into action. So, I made an appointment for next week, and we'll see if I cancel it or not, depending on how I act this week.

By the way, this morning, so far, so good. My interest in the forum has increased already just by not acting out this morning. I see that it was the Y"H telling me to give up, and stop reading the chizuk emails and posts here. But, controlling myself for an entire week will be hard, and we'll see if it can be done.

I'd hate to give up therapy if I fall once this week. But, the 12 steps do say that nothing works except for the 12 steps, not even therapy. So, I guess we'll see which weapon is stronger.

Sorry for rambling. This is where I'm at for now, and these are the thoughts in my head. I thought you might find it interesting, or it might help someone.

Cheers,
Momo