I don't know what to think.

On one hand, acting out is what I need now to fill my hole. It keeps me sane. It relieves pressure and allows me to escape. It lets me be in control for a few minutes. And, it's the only thing in my life that's exciting.
On the other hand, ironically, it drives me to depression because after I act out I feel I've lost my self-control and have sinned. I have driven HaShem out of my life, and that's very, very bad.
It's a vicious cycle.

This is making me crazy! I don't expect the answer after one session, but we live in a generation of immediate answers and gratification, especially us who are addicts.

By the way, do you think I should still try to keep up with DC's calls and the steps or is therapy enough?

Momo wrote on 18 Oct 2009 10:44:


I have a feeling that I wasn't the one that question was directed at,
nonetheless..., I will share my thoughts, forgive me,

I think I would stick with both.
They can add a lot to each other.
And I define for myself what is enough and what is not
as you can do for yourself in this situation.

P.S. I don't have to know what to think.
It is fine for me not to know what to think at times.
It is  question of what I do...

Firstly, Reb Shraga learned his approach in 12-Step groups, so if you continue with Duvid Chaim and continue working the steps into your life, you will be "complementing" your therapy sessions and making them much more powerful.

Secondly, the more effort we put into recovery and do "our" part, the more Hashem does "His" part and grants us freedom from the addiction.

Thirdly, there's the aspect of group support, which is very powerful.

Fourthly, since you were on the calls last time, you will have a lot to share and contribute this time around, and be able to help many others. And there is NOTHING as powerful as helping others recover - to help ourselves! Another one or two times through the cycle, and you'll likely be able to moderate your OWN GYE phone group, here in Israel! And we need an Israel group badly. Imagine having the zechus one day to make a big difference in the lives of so many people!

Fifthly, we never "finish" working the steps... We just keep working them more and more into our lives and keep "growing" in the "right" direction, becoming more "G-dly", more "giving", more connected to life, etc... The sky is the limit, and we never stop growing. Ask Dov about this one

Momo, one day you will yet say - as we said today in Halel: "yasor yisrani kah, vilamaves lo nisanani.... odecha ki anisani, vatehi li lishua... me'es Hashem haysa zos, hi niflos be'einainu"

guardureyes wrote on 18 Oct 2009 11:38:


Maybe. All I know is that right now I'm sick and tired of struggling and rising and falling and not being able to go to work and work like a "normal" person.

I've failed the 12 steps because I got stuck on step 3 (making His will my will, or surrendering to Him).

I'm stealing from my employer every day I waste by surfing and not working.
I kill every time I act out.
I look so frum but I can't even get the basic premise of Judaism down: Being a servant of Hashem instead of myself.

I feel like quitting my job, going home, and escaping from it all, for once and for all.
I hate myself. I hate my addiction. I hate my life. G-d, where's that "end-it-all" pill when you need it?

I guess I've turned into the killjoy of the forum. Sorry, I'm just a sick, sick, sick man pretending to be healthy, trying to fool everyone around me. Except I'm the fool.

You all had high hopes for me. So far, I've failed you all. I've failed myself.

Only HaShem knows what tomorrow will bring.

You haven't failed anyone. The fact that you are here on the forum, the fact you keep coming back even when all looks hopeless, the fact you were on Duvid Chaim's calls once - and hopefully again, the fact that you are going to therapy, the fact that you admit powerlessness  - these are all very great steps on your journey. And as long as you are still on the journey, not only aren't you a failure - you're a big success!

You see, it's not "WINNING" that counts, it's the JOURNEY that counts.

This world is a journey. Let's leave "winning" for the next world. In this world, we need to only focus only on the journey. You may be falling, you may feel empty, depressed, aimless, etc... But as long as you stay on the road and stick to what you know how to do (posting, DC's calls, therapy, teffilah, etc..) then you are a BIG SUCCESS.

You may feel you  have failed yourself,
we'll let you know when you've failed us.

But you have to hang in there so we can let you know when that day arrives!

Thanks 7Up. That was funny.
You always know the right thing to say. G-d bless you. (Although I don't really believe you'll let me know when I fail you.  )

momo i love you
guard i love you
mom i love you
sturggle i love you
uri i love you
everyone i love you

It will all end great momo
i have great faith in you
dont worry
be happy  :D

momo, youre not sick..

a real sick person sits around and watches his tumor grow and refuses to do anything about it...

a healthy person is out there every day fighting his disease...

you are fighting...i dont know much but i do know that there is a cure for this and i know youre out there looking for it...if i were vegas id put the odds strongly in favor of you coming out on top...

do i hear 10-1 odds momo makes it?
im placing 200 dollars on momo
any takers?
PM only please

I AM JEALOUS OF YOUR STRENGTH. You are such an amazing person for jumping right back up. never quit. you  continue to inspire us all.

Uri wrote on 18 Oct 2009 16:17:


Uri, you're nuts! I wouldn't put more than 10 dollars on myself.
However, I appreciate your faith in me, which is much greater than the faith I have in myself.

a kid is always unsure that he will ever be able to bike,or swim,or anything.
but everyone else knows that he'll be okay

Uri wrote on 19 Oct 2009 06:30:
Absolutely beautiful! (and true). Never thought of it quite that way Uri, thanks!

Momo - Who does the third step perfectly? Who even does it well? I never did, for sure!
That it why it reads: "Made a decision to turn...over to HP" and not "turned our will...over to HP". Practically no one turns their will over. It takes a lifetime for most folks I know and so far, for me. The fourth step etc., is needed precisely because none of us succeed at "turning our will..." - because we are messed up a bit emotionally and mentally. We are addicts, after all. We really need some work and a lot of help.
So "swim, bike, or jog" right into the 4th fresh and new as if you never saw it before with a fearless gusto, and please don't fall prey to the silly idea that you can do any of the steps (including the 3rd step!) without another person. For me, that game would be just trying the same crapola I had always tried, just trying it harder. Oy vei....

Momo, haven't heard from you in a few days, howya doin?