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Scientific studies show that it takes 90 days to break an addictive pattern in the mind. Start your own Log of your journey to 90 days! Post here to update us on your status and to give each other chizuk to stay strong!
TOPIC: Momo II: Another try 57428 Views
Re: Momo II: Another try 23 Sep 2009 17:18 #19862
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Momo wrote on 22 Sep 2009 06:11:
Dov, Guard, You didn't over do it. I appreciate your honesty and effort to give me practical advice. You're saying sipping beer and laying off the booze isn't good enough since beer leads to booze. It's cold turkey for me. I can try it again today even though I wasn't completely successful yesterday. Two things to respond that are not the derech for everybody, but I share this for Momo cuz my heart tells me it may be for him, as it is for me: No, and...No. I'll explain, be"H... For me in addiction, staying clean was a religious struggle. A clean day was another feather in my hat, a good deed, a great mitzva, and - as some here have stated - another feather in the "hat of the Ribono shel Olam". This did not get me any better, though, same as you seem to be saying. It's beautiful to know that a clean day is a kiddush Hashem and gives Him nachas, a tikkun, etc. But by itself, that did nothing to change me, and I knew it. It sounds like you are expressing a similar awareness, Momo. In recovery, things are vastly different. And that brings me to your reiteration of Guard and my posts to you (#453-ish above). No, the ikkar of recovery is not "not acting out". It is about the rest of what we are doing. Why is it that some of us has had a year or so of relatively clean time while in yeshiva in EY, or wherever? We were living differently, so we were different. (Then we went back home and back to the same way of life and the rest was history  .) As Kedusha has posted many times, the "best way" to guarantee I'll think about lust is focus on trying not to think about lust. But I'm going a step further, perhaps. In my life so far, the way it works is that I can't struggle with it. I can't struggle with it, even for Hashem's sake. "Hashem ish milchama" means I am not, in my case. In fact, the steps don't even mention our drug/problem, besides in #1. So, the way I see it, the way for me to guarantee I'll keep struggling with it (and losing) is to just keep thinking about not struggling with it. "Counting the days" is all the impetus I need to pick up that bat and get back to work struggling (and losing). It happens so fast and so naturally, I don't even realize it's occurring. Then I wake up obsessed and fantasizing. And for years the struggling and the counting were "lesheim shomayim", which doesn't make it right, of course. And it isn't "right" if it doesn't work. I have to give the entire mess to Hashem. But how do wedo that? The answer is to learn how to continuously focus on living right - living for Hashem. And that takes work and is what the 4th-12th steps are all about: getting myself clean enough for Hashem to shine through me. Mainly by reducing ga'ava. The 3rd step - the program's condition for sanity and sobriety - is about one thing: deciding to live for G-d. Not about resisting temptation for G-d, and certainly not about not acting out. And it cannot be done successfuly alone. Sfas Emes: "v'hyisem kedoshim leylokeichem" - Hashem does not have any interest in his people being "Kedoshim". What He wants his people to be is: Kedoshim leylokeichem - kedoshim for Him. Jews for Hashem! If I am acting out, even occasionally, even just "slipping", my real malady is that I have slipped back into living for myself. It needs quick correction. Struggling with lust isn't the solution - it is a symptom of the problem. I'm not even the issue, that is, my "goodness" is irrelevant. I've just got the wrong employer, that's all. And nothing will "work", because I am an addict. A regular yid can "make it". I can't. How lucky can a man be? A well-known vort (see a recent Battleworn post): "Vehaboteyach baShem, chesed yisovevenhu" Even for one who is still a rasha - as long as he attaches himself to Hashem with bitachon in Him, Hashem will connect with him with His love/chesed. So, sipping beer or not sipping beer is not what the solution is about. It is about all the other things that we thought were not related to our acting out. Our motivation for living is what matters, not our motivations for acting out. Life gets good in a hurry when we are living for the right reasons, even if we are not doing it perfectly. The 3rd steps is about a decision, a start. But it has to be real. A tzaddik said: "pischu li pesach kechudo shel machat, v'ani eftach lochem pesach shel ulam, etc." he said, it has to be like a needle: all the way through. Meaning: He doesn't ask for perfect, just for "real". If you are content with "winning one for the Ribono shel Olam" (between losses for both of you), gezunterheit. That has not been my experience or understanding of the program, or of recovery. At all. Don't worry, He won't mind you engaging in some enlightened self-interest and leaving the glory of beating the YH to a pulp to others who are more qualified. And there are some, it seems, as you implied in a post. He really wants you to succeed at living a good jewish life after all, no? The only way I could live was by finally giving up the romanticised struggle, and getting to work, for Hashem. C'mon. At some point I had to admit that my whole struggle and torture (of about 20 years) was ultimately all about me deep inside, really. Even though it was cloaked in kedusha, Torah and mitzvos, for Hashem, etc., it was all about me, me me. Eventually I saw I was only fooling myself and that I'd be the star-crossed, tragic loser in the end. They'd be cheering for me at my grave. "What a fighter he was." Wow. Adon Olam: "Hashem li, velo iroh" - He is for me. And I'm for Him. That is how we approach the Yomin Noraim: E-l-u-l. If He's my banner and my employer, then I have absolutely nothing to be afraid of. To recap: No, it's not all about beer vs wiskey, nor even all about staying off the stuff altogether. Long-term sobriety (and I assume that's what you are interested in) is not born solely of abstinence. (and) No, "I can try it again" is not necessarily the answer either. If you want a different life, you will need to start living differently. The focus cannot be on "stopping the lust" while leaving the rest of your life essentially the same. If the way I eat, sleep, learn, daven, love your wife and kids, see yourself in a mirror (when permitted), and breathe have not changed an iota, I believe the whole thing is B with an S after it. Now, it may take some time, but that change had to be my focus. The sobriety came almost memeiloh - with phone calls and lots of quiet "Hashem help"s all day long, and meetings where is got honest and poured all my garbage and shame out of me and into the light. So, instead of worrying about slipping a falling so much, how can you change the way you are living the rest of the (50%? ;D) of your life so that it's for Him, or at least for others than you? I love you, and all addicts. - Dov |
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"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: Momo II: Another try 23 Sep 2009 17:33 #19870
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Im with guard 100 percent.
This is a struggle unlike any other. My therapist has a site called hugme.co.il Flaky,right? Our illness comes from a place of fear.From a place of insecurty.From a place of lonely hopelessness. We're not trading your-momma jokes. We are showing love and concern. We are laughing and hugging. We are healing the problem. This is not a philosophical site (for the most part). A tushload of philosophy has been written on this subject. SLAA meetings arent a chance to share philosophy. Its a forum in which to share and feel understood and accepted. And that's what goes on here on GYE. Its true some threads get hijacked. Its true Rage has forgotten his english. But we are not forgetting why we are here. THIS IS WHY WE ARE HERE Our addictions will never let us forget why we are here because we have constant nisyonos. So Tomim,i disagree with you 100% percent.Momo 75%.Guard-i cant swim  Love to all -uri |
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Re: Momo II: Another try 23 Sep 2009 17:45 #19876
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Re: Momo II: Another try 23 Sep 2009 17:47 #19877
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Uri wrote on 23 Sep 2009 17:33:
So Tomim,i disagree with you 100% percent. I'm tempted to crack a joke.  :D ;D
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Re: Momo II: Another try 23 Sep 2009 17:53 #19879
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Re: Momo II: Another try 23 Sep 2009 17:56 #19881
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Re: Momo II: Another try 23 Sep 2009 18:02 #19885
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Re: Momo II: Another try 23 Sep 2009 18:14 #19887
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Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
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Re: Momo II: Another try 23 Sep 2009 18:14 #19888
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Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
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Re: Momo II: Another try 23 Sep 2009 18:17 #19889
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Rage AT Machine wrote on 23 Sep 2009 16:40:
perhaps you have continuously failed because you enjoy wallowing in self pity and depression... I think RATM stands for Rage at the Momo. Maybe I do enjoy wallowing in self pity. I suffer from depression, and that's par for the course. |
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Re: Momo II: Another try 23 Sep 2009 18:19 #19890
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Just as an alcoholic needs to avoid that first sip, a lust addict needs to avoid that first slip.Slip today? No way! ;)Fall today? No way, Jose'!
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Re: Momo II: Another try 23 Sep 2009 18:22 #19891
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Re: Momo II: Another try 23 Sep 2009 18:27 #19894
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We forgive you Momo... I think it was good. It brought out some justified concerns and gave everyone a chance to express their views. I think it also brought us some clarity...
One small problem... you probably got even less work done today than usual
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Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
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Re: Momo II: Another try 23 Sep 2009 18:29 #19896
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Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
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Re: Momo II: Another try 23 Sep 2009 18:40 #19900
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