Come out of your bomb shelters! (with your hands up) The F-16s have passed...  (KG: "Don't believe him, guys! Noooo!!")

W/all very due respect to Rav S...
1- Mo, you are coming from the other direction than i was. I started off feeling sure that my wife was at least indirectly the cause of my problem, or at least made it worse or harder for me to recover. It took months for me to finally accept what my sponsor was telling me: that my recovery is 100% in my hands and the more relevant I make my wife, the more irrelevant I am making myself. A huge part of my problem was that I gave her (and most women, even imaginary women) way too much of my power. It had to stop.
We first came to a shrink for "marriage trouble", because my wife wanted/didn't want to divorce me...we both found out that I was the one with the immediate problem - and that our marriage could wait. I finally got sober (thanks to more acting out, not to that shrink) about a year and a half later...now our marriage is better than we ever dreamed. Of course, G-d isn't through with it yet and we can surely improve together. But enough about us...
You seem to be OK with the self-responsibility thing, and maybe the good doctor wants to help you get over the next hump in recovery by squashing her into the equation. Perhaps he believes that your relationship with her is actually part of your problem? Though I agree that it can be very helpful on many counts, I just do not have any experience with an addict needing to have his wife in recovery. "Needing" is a big word, and I don't understand. Working my steps on my relationship with her by: giving her up as my higher power - in step 2; admitting my crazy expectations of her to me (and me to her) - in steps 4-7; and making amends - with step 9, those things I understand.   

2- Whatever you end up doing, it is not Rav S who you are recovering for. You will never really owe him or anyone your recovery - only yourself, by using the gifts Hashem gives you. If you feel it is truly good for you to do the things he suggests, then why not do them? Maybe he knows better. I don't. But whatever you do, my wish for you is that you put your recovery before Rav S's and your wife's preferences, and also before your own comfort, and do whatever it is that you need to do to remain sober and in recovery. Hatzlocha, sweet yid! 

Half an hour is something

and just because you feel lust doesn't mean you have to act out...

Rage ATM wrote on 28 Jan 2010 14:25:


what the $%$^%& is that supposed to mean?

Props to the restraint Sturrgle, a quality sorely lacking in RAge I'm afraid.

Rage ATM wrote on 28 Jan 2010 14:30:
So the "s" word was meant in a good way...

don't think we've had one of these in a while,

GO MOMO GO!!!

Momo wrote on 28 Jan 2010 14:36:
Well if there are any days of the week to do it - it's friday and Shabbos.

Momo - Good luck...when you get a chance, might want to check out a recent post on my thread - I wrote it for myself, but maybe others can get something out of it, too.

Momo wrote on 28 Jan 2010 12:06:


Is it allowed to write the letters "BS" on the forum? Oh, good.
Sorry, but this is BS, Momo. You were "forced"?
Not quite.
Momo was simply given a choice between something he really wanted (to use lust) vs something he wanted even more (to keep Rav S. - or not to lose him), and chose the one he wanted more. That is not anything like being forced, in my book.

I won't write any more, for I feel the dovish coming over me if I do...hope it was english enough to be useful 2U. If you hate me now, I'll just be forced to have a slug of Woodford and make everything OK....  :

Momo wrote on 28 Jan 2010 19:00:


Momo,

All of us addicts are powerless.  By definition.  But that only means we can't avoid temptation though sheer willpower.  However, there are steps we can take to help us stay clean, one day at a time, such as those listed in the GYE handbooks.

Kedusha

MO MO MO MO GOTTA GO TO MO'S GOTTA GO TO MOMOS GOTTA GO TO MO'S YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Well, I'm on one foot...(and the other one is in my mouth) but hopefully this means something anyway:

Powerless. When I looked at life in a general sense and saw that I tried umpteen things to stay clean and really wanted to stay clean, cried an NCSY kumzites, davening, later in yeshiva over my gemorah, and still later in kollel behing the steering wheel at 2a.m. after acting out again....I finally came to the conclusion that in any single given situation I may have the ability to say no....and I did plenty of times. But I came to see that that meant nothing, really. Because I saw that no matter what I try, I had no ability to really stop. I was going to use again, and the next time I do - well, I had no control over what the stakes would be. Maybe I'd play into the hands of a state police agent as a friend of mine did, and end up on a state registry for sex-offenders, maybe not. When I would give in, I'd give in - no matter what the cost.
Nu. Is that bechirah? Kind of, I guess, but really a very lame kind of bechirah, to me. Kind of like choosing between how we are going to die...but all along really running like hell from it as though we can really dodge that fate if we try hard enough. It ain't gonna work in the end - it's gonna get me. We all do that, I guess...

Sorry about the dovish so far.

I have met many who are sober for a long time, and now see my own time as quite the miracle. Who knows what life tests are around the corner for me? I may get too scared or angry or prideful tomorrow and as a result feel I need to act out. I hope not. All I can do is not think about it so much and trust Hashem a little that He knows what He is doing and that He has a really, really good plan for me, right now. Today. All I need to do is get the hell out of His way.
Why is that so hard for all of us?

Reebi I loved that post. Its so funny how our minds work so different when we are sober. even if for just a few days. We see things so much more clearly. Thanks for the post.

I dont know if you mean me...although I have tried saying hello a few times (meaningful glare emoticon)... :D

I honestly have pretty much no idea what your issues are, so I can't really say much - but from everything I've seen from you, I feel confident that you'll continue to grow.

And counting or not, you always have our support.