Hey guys
I'm on day 3 of being clean.
Today I'm already feeling some urges.
Worse yet, I feel that feeling of 'wanting to let go'. That means the feeling of "I'll just give in and heck with the consequences." It doesn't mean I'm about to give in, but it means that that little voice has started talking. Giving any credibility to this voice can easily snowball into acting out.
I know that commitment is crucial to overcome this. But I also feel that I'm missing a key ingredient. What is the ingredient? I'm not sure.
Any wisdom from the rest of you is more than welcome.

I don't have any wisdom but you can call me to tell me all about what you are thinking about doing ("the voice.") If you are interested reply and I'll give you my phone number.

Day 4
Not such great news unfortunately.

Why is this so hard?
Or am I making this hard for myself. 

At least last night and this morning, I was able to persevere. 

Somehow when I closed my eyes last night, all types of images started creeping in. Not necessarily real ones. It went downhill from there.

IY"H I'll once again have to pick myself up and brush off the dust.
It's just so frustrating. I don't feel like my tries are getting me anywhere and I don't feel like any real lasting growth is coming out of this.
It's true that when I practice shmiras eynayim, it's less intense. Nonetheless I don't feel it dissipates.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong. 

[I know that not all I wrote is fact, I'm just venting my feelings.]

I sent you my phone number. You can talk or listen, or both. When you call you're helping two people. Calling is a form of therapy.

anonymousmillenial wrote on 26 Oct 2021 09:54:

Don't know the longest you went clean and im sure its different for different people but at least for me at this point its not so much of an active struggle just some mild thoughts in bed here and there 

Was hard to get here but couldnt have been happier I fought tooth and nail to get to this point

First of all If you feel challenged by nisyonos in the area of kedusha, you are actually in good company. Chazal describe the temptation, מתאווה להם ומחמדתן – man desires and craves these things. ( מכות פרק ג' משנה ט״ו ) There is a natural craving for immorality implanted in all of us.

Don’t let the yeitzer hora succeed. Even if you have lost many battles, you
will win the war. The Siyata Dishmaya you were witness to in the time that you did manage to stay strong assures you that you can and will succeed.

The Tzadik falls seven times and yet he rises (Mishlei 24:16): This is the lifeline of a person who stays focused, even in the face of adversity. Regardless of any past mistakes, he persistently carries on. This puts him in a superior category, even when his present madraiga is perhaps unsatisfactory.

Fighting the present ugly yeitzer hora is our chance to show beloved devotion to Hashem. When Moshiach comes, there will be plenty of avodah for us to do. Nevertheless, this glorious opportunity which is being offered to us now,will be over

Rabbi Twerski once wrote as follows about someone who was convinced he could never give up these behaviors:

His conviction that he cannot overcome the addiction is the addiction talking to him, saying, “Give up the fight, it’s useless. You’ll never succeed, so why put yourself through the misery.” Other than just try to stop, what has this young man done to make essential changes in his character? That’s where one should begin.

I attended an AA meeting where the speaker was celebrating his 20th year of sobriety. He began by saying, “The man I once was, drank. And the man I once was, will drink again” (but the man I am today, will not). Alcoholics who have not had a drink for many years but have not overhauled their character are “dry drunks” and will often drink again. The same is true for this addiction.

How does one become a different person? By working diligently on improving one’s character traits. Learning how to manage anger, to rid oneself of resentments, to overcome hate, to be humble, to be considerate of others, to be absolutely honest in all one’s affairs, to admit being wrong, to overcome envy, to be diligent and overcome procrastination. In short, one should take the Orchos Tzaddikim(I’m sure it’s available in English), and go down the list of character traits, strengthening the good one’s and trying to eliminate the bad ones. This does not happen quickly. When one has transformed one’s character and has become a different person, one will find that this “new person” can accomplish things that the old person could not.

EvedHashem1836 wrote on 26 Oct 2021 12:20:

Thanks for your insight!
Any personal tips and suggestions on how you got there?

DavidT wrote on 26 Oct 2021 13:56:

Thank you very much DavidT for your warm words of chizuk.

It's very true what you write. In order to overcome these challenges, we need to become a new person. Perhaps that's the reason we have those challenges to start with. We go in as person A and we come out the other end as person B. Person B might have battle scars that will last him a lifetime. But in the end, person B will be a stronger, healthier and more tolerant person. And, as you wrote, we have to be patient with ourselves and can't expect instant result.

anonymousmillenial wrote on 26 Oct 2021 16:10:

Hi AM, I'm relatively new to the forum - so I took some time to read through your thread. You're an incredible fighter and have some of the clearest, articulate arguments understanding what the fight is about and how to combat it. We can all learn a great deal from many of your posts.

Here are my thoughts on what you might be struggling with - forgive me if I'm off the mark.

• ​When You started about a year ago, you were loaded with motivation and the belief that this can be conquered. That belief helped you climb very high. Since then it's been a lot of up and down and you're feeling like you're not getting anywhere ("It's just so frustrating. I don't feel like my tries are getting me anywhere and I don't feel like any real lasting growth is coming out of this.") Perhaps you can use R' Yisroel Salanter's advice for Yiush - to focus on the value of each clean day, or each Nisayon passed, ODAAT, and ignore the immense mountain - knowing that that is the trick to get to the top. Also, look back at the strength and conviction you had earlier and look at what helped you then
• What happens when you get a strong urge? Does it overtake you, flooding your head with thoughts, followed by an anxiousness of "can I fight this, I can't, etc." with a battle of trying to get rid of it?" A tightrope walker who is thinking "I'm going to fall!" will likely do so. What has worked for me (I believe you wrote about this earlier) is watching the urge, externalizing it, and letting it go. Having your mind loosen up, and relax, allows the lust and accompanying anxiety to exit. Easier said than done, perhaps, but I do think from my own experience, that there's a strong correlation between when lust overtakes us and the anxiety that goes along with it and grows and grows until we give in.

Avrohom wrote on 27 Oct 2021 03:56:

Thank you very much Avrohom for your compliments () and insights. Both of your points seem very valid and make a lot of sense.

I do try to keep to the ODAAT principle and I try not to let the anxiety take over (although as you mentioned this is easier said then done as it's very easy to constantly check yourself to see if the urge is gone thereby exacerbating the anxiety).

But as you mentioned, the constant ups and downs without the feeling of actually getting anywhere doesn't give much satisfaction and can lead to yiush. And in fact has led to the occasional frustration and feeling that it's not worth fighting this as there is no end to this (of course this is not true).

Also worth pointing out is that knowing 'the rules of the game' doesn't always mean we have cheishik to play and abide by them and that can lead to reckless behavior, unfortunately with not such great results. Doing is always harder than actually knowing. I can have the know-how of playing baseball in 2 seconds (swing the bat when the ball comes your way), but it can take months and years for me to perfect my skills and truly become an expert in it.

This is not to say I haven't had any growth lately. Baruch Hashem, I'm not at the point of Yiush. In truth I know that there has been a lot of growth over the past year. Unfortunately, if growth is only measured by a number on a dashboard, then the situation would indeed be a bit more bleak.

This growth came partly from trying to ask myself, "what's the next step in overcoming this?". So even though I'm not at the point of entirely overcoming the full challenge, I'll try to see what action I can take to at least move in a forward trajectory. Slowly I've been peeling back layer by layer.

This is an example of the steps I have taken over the past year:

1.) Get a better filter
2.) Whenever I fall due to something the filter does allow, I try to block it.
3.) Make sure I don't have access to other unfiltered devices in the house.
4.) Work on letting go of movies because they are triggering. This includes:
    a.) Making the decision of actually letting go
    b.) Getting rid of physical access
    c.) Making the decision again of letting go (as unfortunately backtracking by me is a reality sometimes.)
    d.) Strengthening myself in this area whenever I backtrack once again.
5.) Work on MZ"L. This includes
    a.) First and foremost shmiras eynayim
    b.) Keeping busy
    c.) Davening
    d.) Keeping in touch with the forum and the like
    e.) Try to shift my perspective (i.e. telling myself that this is not something I need)

So, yes, I do have to focus on conquering each day separately, like you mentioned. And even when we do fall, we should at least make sure that we fall forward and not backwards. That happens by seeing where we fall and setting the proper fences up. And perhaps even better, set up the fences even before we fall. In the process of doing so, we'll learn a lot about ourselves, which in turn will further inspire growth even in other areas.

Again, thank you very much for your response

I wrote a longish response but it didnt send so to sum up I would say daven. Take it seriously and really daven. You can insert anything you want to say in englizh right before the second yehiyu liratzon

This is what worked for me combined with a powerful drive to succeed. I went through a lot of challenges and had different solutions to each one but can't detail them all here for more info see my thread

Hi peeps, 

It's been a while. Honestly, coming back here to write a post feels kinda weird. Like picking up the phone to call someone you know you should've called a long time ago. A sense of guilt coupled with relief. This post isn't part of a series of blog posts nor the beginning of a new adventure. I'm sorta writing it for myself, being at my computer and feeling the need to express a few thoughts. [You, the reader, have been forewarned and I give you the permission henceforth to skip this post.]

I still fondly and bitterly recall the early days of my struggle. A sense of mission to overcome this, no matter what. Perhaps even a sense of heroism. And on the other end, the pain of having these nisyonos to deal with in the first place. The question of "how did I get entangled in this?" hanging over me as I try to keep my head up from under the water. There were many wins and unfortunately many losses as well.

But as time went by, the initial sensitivity to what once seemed so sacred, has all but been dulled, numbed and weakened. Learning to live with your losses comes with great benefits, though. I mean, you can get used to anything, can't you? Even this.

And yet, there's this pervasive nagging feeling of unrest; this relentless feeling within myself that won't let go. "Don't give up!" it will say. Or perhaps "there'll come a day when this will all be something of the past". A sense of hope. Something to cling to. I am grateful for this.

Nonetheless, the weariness of the fighting is something I must carry with me every day. As much as I'd wished that this wouldn't be at the forefront of my mind, it unfortunately is.

I've personally struggled for many months on a daily basis with it's ups and downs. And I wish I could say that I am interested in being helped, and sometimes I am. But sometimes, I just want to be left to my own devices. Just to have the space to figure this out on my own. Or just to be allowed to drown, not needing to fight. And I have tried that. It seems like I am getting closer to the end. But like the horizon of the sea, I still haven't reached the end. And I'm still trying to keep my head up in those waters. 

It occurs to me sometimes that perhaps like that same horizon, there is no end. Perhaps swimming in these stormy waters and trying to fight for our lives is the purpose. It's a scary thought. One I have difficulty accepting. Nonetheless that's the way it feels at times.

Being alone in life doesn't help either. Every day takes courage, with an overarching question of "what's the purpose?". Life can seem rather dull sometimes. I know this vision seems rather bleak, but nonetheless it's important to put these feelings out. Nothing in life is binary. There are always going to be great moments in life and ,sometimes, there are going to be some rough moments [and sometimes more than 'some'].

What am I clinging to? I'm clinging to the hope of better days. Of days with more Torah learning. Of days being married. Of days being fulfilled  and happy with myself. Of days where I'll be entirely free of this poison that permeates my entire essence. 

Now don't go feeling all sorry for me. Please don't. That's not the purpose of this. I don't like being pitied.  

Knowing that I'm not alone in this battle does help. In fact it does help a whole lot. It is rather a comforting thought. On the other hand, I've yet to find a balance, because to be honest, this sometimes justifies my continued falling. [It is a side note, I shall admit. Nonetheless I think it has to be mentioned.]

There's also a great sense of fear that I've recognized within myself. One of those fears, is the fear of letting go. The fear of not being able to live without this. This is especially in times of great stress and pain when escape seems like the only venue and this form of escape the only one. Recognition is always the first step to recovery, and I'm happy I'm aware of this. Nonetheless, as Reb Yisroel Salant used to say, the journey to "ve'hashevoiso el levovecho" is as great as the journey to "veyodaata". Two seperate Avodahs.

Another thing I would like to say is that I've cried many tears to Hashem. I know deep down that "Sha'arei demaos lo ninalu", and I know that Hashem listens to me,  but I feel like those tears somehow don't penetrate the gates. I know that when someone gives in to areas of Kedusha, it can block the spiritual pathways. But really, if this is the nisayon of the generation, can't Hashem make an exception for us? How much longer must we hold on? How much longer can Hashem refuse our prayers? 

What more can I say? Well, probably a lot more, I'll leave it to this, though.
I'm hesitant to post this as this post probably sounds melodramatic and I thank you the reader if you've arrived to the end. 
If it sounds all negative to you, please don't go taking all I said 100% literally as my feelings tend to go up and down.
I just felt like I needed to write a few words to get some feelings out and I also decided to share them because maybe someone else can relate.

anonymousmillenial wrote on 13 Nov 2022 14:57:

This popped up today and I liked it so much I went to the beginning and read the entire thing. AM, you are an unbelievable person. Your writing over the past several years has, in one day, given me a tremendous boost of strength (which, at day 25, I am starting to really need!). A huge shout out to @grant400 for your truly insightful responses to AM. This is why I’m on the site. It’s because of people like you. So a huge yasher koach for all you have accomplished since 2020. You are a true inspiration and a real warrior. And smart, to boot. Can’t help pulling for your success! Keep us posted with more of your thoughts. They’re gold!!

AM, of course your feelings go up and down. And the struggle does wear us out sometimes and it feels just too hard. And maybe, sometimes it is. What you said about the fear of giving it up? That really spoke to me. I am terrified of facing the rest of my life without my drug of choice for the past decades. Until I became frum at age 53, I thought masturbation was natural, healthy, and I indulged myself liberally. Breaking a daily habit of so many decades that had become a crutch is excruciatingly hard. I see that you feel down now. But look back at what you have been able to do. You can do it again and you can exceed your past accomplishments and go even further. I saw what you could do when you were on fire. Throw on another log and burn bright again. I’m an older guy. I’ve seen a lot. I can tell from what you have written here that you. WILL. Succeed! 

Thank you so much @TeshuvaGuy for your kind words. That means a lot to me. I also really needed that encouragement. 

You truly are a source of inspiration yourself as I can't imagine what it must be like becoming frum at the age of 53. Keep up the great work!!