We will all be heartbroken if we hear any bad news c"v.
Don't let us, yourself, or H-shem down.
Think back to a time you fell. What did you gain? Think about how much you COULD HAVE gained.
Imagine you would have stood strong... How good would it feel now to know you have that expirience in your pocket forever, nobody can ever take it away from you.
Imagine you could go back and change what you did.
What would you give for that chance?
Well it's here, and we're all with you in this....
Be your true self. Tomorrow you will be thrilled with the strength you showed for H-shem. And it's yours forever.
Just trust in H-shem and LET HIM BRING YOU THROUGH IT!!
He never fails. You just have to LET him do it for you.... Just let him...
Hoping to hear good news tomorrow.
KG

Dear BH, or is it B"H...

I just finished reading your posts. Yes, the urge to waste time is VERY strong with me as well, and I also went thru the too-tired-to-accomplish cycles. Your struggle is oh so familiar. For me, it's a whole lot of escapism from fear of failure, which though irrational (I usually do OK with projects once I get started) the fear owns me nonetheless. What I'm learning thru the 12-step program with Duvie Chaim is helping me to become the master of this fear and others, but it aint easy. You and I will DEFINITELY get closer as time goes on, I hope - but for now, just some quick chizuk from a fellow struggler:

Foist, stop beating yourself up. The YH LOVES to make us depressed, it's his biggest weapon. You've just GOT to believe in yourself, man, believe that with Hashem at your side YOU WILL GET OUT OF THIS LOOP. Keep thinking this is just a phase, THIS TOO WILL PASS. Start visualizing what you want to accomplish each day for the next few hours, before you get out of bed, then at lunch, then at dinner, then before bed, visualize yourself getting up EARLY, refreshed OR NOT, and pushing yourself to get to minyan BEFORE it starts. Tell yourself it's embarrasing in front of the men, let alone HKB"H, to walk in late.

And if it happens you get there late, say "Hashem! Look at me! I MADE IT TO SHUL!!! THANKYOU!!!" Focus on the positive. You're a good person. Look at all you've accomplished just in the past week!!! GEVALDIK!!

And if one day you miss minyan for shachris, POTCH that YH back by finishing pesukei d'zimrah (catch up after davening before you take off your tefillin if necc.) and then be early for MINCHA.

Now, about the sleep deprivation, here's some practical HELP like you asked for:

A rebbe of mine once told me that "your day starts the night before." And he explained another big trick of the YH is to make us stay up too late at night to get enough sleep. He even tricks us into becoming temporary tzaddiks by giving us an inspiration to LEARN late, cuz he knows we're gonna miss davening in the morning AND forget the learning cuz we were tired when we did it.

My prescription? Don't eat after 8 pm, but water is OK. Absolutely no video stimulation for the 2 hours before bed. Turn off the phone. Set up some quiet instrumental background music, or get one of those cheep sound machines that makes pastoral or rain sounds for noise. At the same time, curl up IN BED with a nice Visions of Greatness book, or something with SHORT inspirational stories (and read the happy ones, not the holocaust ones). Limit yourself to 20 min. of reading AFTER you take one of the following sleep aids: Sip a nice cup of Wisskotsky's Sweet Lullaby Tea (it's decaf). Or, if you're the type, (and nobody yell at me, this is only for temporary use), take some over the counter melatonin or Sleep MD (all natural sleep aids) - of course check with your doctor first and also to know how much to take - do NOT take too much, even if the box says it's not habit forming, please be smart. BUT GO TO BED THE FIRST NIGHT WITH 10-12 HOURS AVAIL. before you have to get up. At least 9 hours. Cancel a chavrusa if you have to - it's an investment in your future.

Do this for 3 nights in a row. No excuses. See what happens. You need to reset your internal clock. And you need some safe and healthy way to get you to sleep long enough to experience REM sleep and proper dreaming.

If you're still exhausted, even after being asleep for 8 hours 3 days in a row, then please consider getting a sleep study to test for sleep apnea. That was part of my problem, too.

Sorry this took so long (for both of us) but I wanted to share this ASAP after reading your posts. YOU NEED THE SLEEP!! GO FOR IT!!

And welcome aboard the life raft.

Steve (also avail via email or PM)

Thanks Steve :-)

A few thoughts:

Yesterday was a BAD day. From now on I will be considering Movies/ TV shows as slips, and 3 slips as a fall. I am wasting so much time its probably even more damaging than technically worse things, not to mention its a potential trigger. I will reach out here when I feel the need for that as well and I hope for your support :-)

I was thinking about different things and I realized that the fact is, I'm not really an addict to Lust. What I am, is an addict to comfort. Maybe all addicts are actually addicts to comfort. Lust is a discomfort that can be comforted via acting out, which usually "over-comforts." As opposed to Alcohol or cigarretes, lust (& overeating) are based on natural urges, therefore I am just overdoing it on fulfilling that need. What I need to realize, is that I'm not in this world to be comfortable. Discomfort is what gets us to achieve. If I am comfortable, I'm getting nowhere. I need to stop trying to "comfortable." In fact, I need to start seeing discomfort as the next challenge God has given me, and I should be EXCITED at the opportunity to complete it.  There is much written about how once we get past a certain point it will be easier. But life is not easy - its not meant to be. If we expect to get to "easy street" and then we're "good" well I have news for you. Easy street is 6 feet under. We need to stop reaching for easy street. What will happen is that a specific challenge will no longer be a challenge. But there will be other challenges. Reading is not a challenge for me. I do it with ease. But tell that to a 4 year old and see what they say. Once we pass this "level" in the game of life, we will have a new level, which will be different, and of course difficult. But only until we complete it. Where at a certain point we will not consider it difficult, because we have LEARNED THE TOOLS NECESSARY TO MAKE IT A TRIVIAL OBSTACLE. God gave us the Torah which has the tools. God gave us challenges to be overcome with the tools. Thats it. Learn the tools, use them. Ignore the yetzer hara - he's looking for you to abandon the tools and try to fight him empty handed, which in of itself is a failure! I am here to learn the tools. To learn to stop fighting discomfort and welcome it as an exciting challenge. Once I achieve that, I will be able to take anything thrown at me. I will have acquired the tools of managing discomfort.

God judges us on each day's accomplishment. What I did or was yesterday is irrelevant. What I will do or will be tomorrow is also irrelevant. What I do today is my current job. What is interesting, is that God starts the day in the evening, not the morning. As Steve said, my day starts the night before. In the evening, I have the time and quiet to prepare for the morning. To get what I need ready to start the day off with a bang. To be well rested, clean, and mentally prepared. A day that starts off with a bang has enough momentum that the day passes by so quickly its a blur. When I'm done that day, all I need to know is if I did what I had to do THAT day. Thats it. Tomorrow is a new day. Not connected to today. Every day is a new challenge, every day is a piece of the puzzle of our life, a single contribution to our collection box upstairs. Day by day, we add a room to our palace called today. I will take the challenges of today head on. I will do what God wants today for today. I will stop trying to achieve comfort so it can be "better tomorrow." I will live each day as if there is no other day. Because truthfully, there is no other. אם לא עכשיו אימתי?

BecomeHoly wrote on 15 Dec 2009 23:56:

Hey Become Holy, I like your thinking, very nice mehalach there, but I'm gonna disagree with you. There is definitely something to what your saying. It is a sign of immaturity and simple lack of self control when one can't get himself to resist doing something which he wants to do, like sleep instead of getting up to go to minyan, or chilling instead of going to learn, or eating something with an iffy hechsher. But p**n does not belong to that categorie. It's just that they can easily be confused, since outwardly they appear to manifest themselves in an identical manner. Both start with a conscious thought of "I know I shouldn't do this", and both cause one to give in to the urge and overrule the thought.
But they are very different. One is cured by simply 'getting your act together', and one is only cured through taking specific steps in the treatment program.
I have tried for years to kick my p**n habit by 'getting my act together' numerous ways. And while everything else in my life fell into place through 'getting serious' and 'shaping up', this just wouldn't budge. And I'd go through streak after streak, fall after fall, each time thinking a different 'nekudah' was really what was causing the problem, and had I worked on that - I would have been done with this long ago, and now that I was going to develop that 'mindset' or start that 'hanhagah' I would no longer have the problem.
Needless to say, I'd be back to the same question of "where did I go wrong this time" a week, or month or 3 months later.
And this continued until I found out what an addiction is, and it's nature, and how it controlls a person's thinking, and how different tools are neccessary to beat it.
Be smart, we're all with you in this. Use the proper tools and you will succeed.

Thing is, I'm single. I don't have a kosher way to solve my sexual frustration. I think something as simple as that would make a huge difference for me. My problem is a fall means that I am no longer clean. And being clean for me is either all or nothing: Shave, shower, cut nails, Mikva, tikkun klali... if I haven't gotten to doing this yet...then I don't resist as much, and porn just makes it more interesting. Its almost the same as watching a movie. It just has a "happy ending." I am actually repulsed with most of the industry - its not real, its demeaning to women, and its abusive. I was drawn to the real stuff, where you could tell its not a "performance." So in fact, I'm actually looking for emotional connection or something of the sort... Marriage might not solve my problem, but it would be close to it.

The general wasting time thing though, won't be solved simply. That I need to work on more than anything. Everything else will flow from that.

I don't know how to tell you this any clearer, but you are speaking exactly like a textbook addict.
All because your not spending 10 hrs a day on it, and you don't find yourself thinking abt p**n whenever your out, and you don't rush over to to computer drooling and with your hands shaking as soon as you get home, that doesn't mean you cross yourself off the addict list as if it can't be a possibility.
What was the longest you have been clean for - durring a time in which you had access?

I was clean 40 days or so, and clean from looking at stuff for about 2 months (after 40 days, due to me literally being super sensitive, and my stomach issues... I kinda went to far coaxing "stomach relief" but ended up sucked into a bad type of relief).

I am an addict. I'm an addict of comfort. Of lust? Not sure.

Take it from a married man. MARRIAGE DOES NOT HELP THIS ADDICTION, IF ANYTHING MAKES IT HARDER. Im sure there are other marrieds that will agree with me. Lust is an addiction and being able to be with your wife has nothing to do with lust. So we are working all the harder of trying to turn our lust to a real marriage. And at least for me this aint to easy. Although im trying really hard. May Hashem help me.

I guess the real question would be - if my eyes did not see anything that would incite me, and I kept my thoughts clean, would I be sexually frustrated? If the answer is no, then I guess its not the same as eating - I really really don't need it, and I won't miss it if I'm not exposed to it.  Realistically I'm exposed to it at every turn. Ideally, in marriage, I would channel all this energy towards my wife. But I guess right now I need to channel it towards God.

BH, I agree 110% with IT25, being married is not the solution.

I've beem married 21 years. The first 3-or more years there was no need to act out. but as the frustrations of leaving a life of learning and trying to make a living, paying the bills, left me with an emptiness I couldn't share with her. She had her own frustrations, and I couldn't burden her with mine. Hers caused her to gain a lot, i mean a lot, of weight, which frustrated me more (as I'm learning now in Steps 4 & 5, I was effected because of my selfishness). And I began to act out. i had NO p**n, it was before internet, but I began to look at other women again, undressing them with my eyes, and that fueled the lust more. Then came internet, and I was a gonner...

you might say, Oh, it's never gonna happen to me, I won't let her gain weight, blah blah blah...

Sorry, Charlie, if it's not that, it'll be somnething else. Life is full of challenges. Something's gonna upset your "comfort zone." And them whattayagonnado?

Accept the fact that you are addicted to lust. You are "sexually frustrated" cause you think that sexual comfort is your right. That is pure american-culture-BS. It is not a right. The Torah tells us it is NOT the way Hashem wants us to behave, THERFORE it is not a G-d given right. The desire to act out will haunt you unless you accept that. An addict is someone who knows he should stop, but cannot. Your Yetzer Hara is trying to stop you from becoming who you were meant to be, by thinking the Lust is no big deal, you could control it if you had but more tools. Don't let him fool you.

But you must know that the 12 Step program shows us our real problem is NOT lust. All addictions are a symptom, they are the "drug of choice" that we use to numb ourselves from what i call an "uncomfortable reality." THAT is the real struggle, to get at what FUELS the addiction, uproot it from the core.

Now, get off the damn forum and get some sleep!!

Nitey nite...

Uh, Become Holy, I want to apologize. And this is about as B'Rabbim as I can get, I guess.

I'm sorry for the loud tone I used at the end of my last post here on your journal. I really am, and I hope you'll forgive me. It was my stupid attempt at a little dramatic humor, that I very much regret I did. I realized how pompous it sounds, and how it might have offended you, or even G-d forbid embarrassed you.

Who am I to speak to you that way, or to anyone? This entire forum is your safe haven, and this journal is YOUR SANCTUARY where you should feel safe to share your heart and soul with us. No one has any right, least not me, to reprimand you or anyone else for their involvement and time spent on the forum.

Katonti from all the chesed everyone on this forum has shown to the world, and their kindness to me personally, especially your posts to me. I was terribly abusive of the the trust that this venue deserves.

Please forgive me. You are such a brave and holy Jew for coming here. I pray to HKB"H that you accept my apology b'leiv shalom. Please continue to come to the forum whenever you wish, whenever you need. And I will try to learn to keep my big mouth shut, and think before I open it.

Love,

Steve.

Steve, you have nothing to worry about it. First of all, brutal honesty is appropriate once in a while (and for some of us, including me, once a day at least). Besides that, I understood your "dramatic humor"... It did not even cross my mind that I should be offended.

Nevertheless, your apology shows what an amazing person you are. Your true character shines through your ability to be considerate of others and I have no doubt that every comment you will write here will only be with the purest of intentions.

Please don't stop writing. By writing this log I have opened up communication which means I  WANT to read everything everyone writes here. No matter how brutal - I know its for my own good. When a Surgeon does surgery to save your life do you complain about the needle for anesthesia? I want to change. I want to face the brutal reality. I probably will do it kicking and screaming, but thats just the way it goes. Sometimes I need to be told what to do, not convinced. I'm here for that.

That applies to the rest of you too :-) I appreciate ALL of your input no matter how much my Y"H might not want to hear it!

Chanuka Sameach! Chodesh Tov :-)

BecomeHoly wrote on 17 Dec 2009 07:59:

BecomeHoly wrote on 17 Dec 2009 07:59:

OK. Here's some brutal: You sound like a coke addict insisting he has a self-discpline problem and not an addiction.

BH, Thank you.

Now I can get some sleep...

Hmmm... well I definitely do have a self-discipline problem. I mean I guess what you're saying is that an addict really needs to let go and let god. so self discipline just ain't doing it. But I've got major issues with other things - I get nowhere near the amount of stuff done I should. But I dunno I'm still figuring it all out. I do know I can do it.

I don't really know about coke addicts... but I do know that lust is not exactly the same as coke. Lust is more like overeating. You gotta eat... you could eat good food in the right amounts or you could do it all wrong. Most people are food addicts on some level - either to unhealthy fats/meats or to sugar or coffee...  in a healthy marriage, intimacy plays a big part. For must of us, separating intimacy from lust is difficult if not impossible. Therefore its kinda hard to figure out if one is really an addict. Is it a natural urge or is it not? Am I an addict when I have a piece of cake KNOWING its not good for me. I could be super healthy, but that cake is still not good for me. Ideally I should be eating only the healthiest foods that are best for me, and refined sugar with refined flower is not it. Am I an addict for eating it?  See this page www.guardureyes.com/GUE/RTwerski/lustvrsdrugs.asp

Where do you draw the line? When does it go from fulfilling a want to being unable to resist that want? How do you know if its an addictive need? Falling once a month? Once a week? Once a day?

To Quote R' Twerski "If you have a desire to do something, and know you shouldn't be doing it but go on to do it anyway, that indicates a loss of control. When this is repetitive, it justifies being considered an addiction."

Based on the insight from the quote (which may not be reflected in the beginning of this post) What is called repetitive? What is repetitive enough that it crosses the line?

See what I'm saying?