Singularity wrote on 14 Mar 2017 08:40:

Not worth much, but in general, I disagree.

cordnoy wrote on 14 Mar 2017 13:02:

so what's your view

Singularity wrote on 14 Mar 2017 13:32:

It is complicated and every case needs to be analyzed on a case by case basis, but the general mindset that "I am recoverin' now, so Torah and mitzvos take a back seat to sobriety" - that doesn't sit well with me (and sometimes is a cop out).

I am not sayin' that it might not be proper for some, but as a generalization, I don't think so.

Sing,
I agree with Cords in general on this topic, but sometimes there is too much mental stress and a person's yiddishkeit may suffer. At that point, if he isn't up to where he'd like to be anyway and doesn't have the mental energy to get back there at the moment, I think it is better to say hey, this is where it is now and I don't want to feel guilty about it because I don't have the mental energy for it rather than beating himself up.

I defer on this issue to Watson's Semantics response.
For me a real recovery is a teshuva.
In my opinion a real recovery which focuses on giving and ceasing to be a taker and being a selfish focuser on self is a teshuva.
Yes in recovery you have to give to yourself other things, like time to heal and time to analyze the reasons why you acted out (the emotional causes - in therapy/group therapy) but recovery programs focus on something called service, which starts with the family, and then other addicts, and the community etc.
Maybe when we stop acting out we then get less impulses to "make teshuva" but i think thats really just a symptom of stopping to do 'aveyras'.
But dont think being in recovery is not being in teshuva.
(in my opinion)

GrowStrong wrote on 14 Mar 2017 16:56:

The above discussion was not about teshuvah; it was about learnin' Torah.

You are right it was off (this) topic, but it was also a more general response to your last post here with me calling Torah and mitzvos - Teshuvah.

If I can share my two sense!

Although GS is saying shtark it might be that Yosef is obsessed right now with recovery (dov mentioned this on his calls) it basically means that his learning will take a back seat for he is realizing how far removed he is from the Torah (derech eretz kodem latorah) this doesn't mean it has to happen to everyone though!

Though I did find it interesting that all the things he mentioned that he is doing nothing was mentioned about giving to others and stop being obsessed with takin for ourselves!!

Just trying to read between the lines Yosef, I have been through similar feelings to understand what you are going through!!

Chasak 

I hit thank you by mistake. But HaShem willed it, so thank you.
Anyway, great name, tiger. I've been confused a couple of times with you.
Speaking of confusion, I think you probably meant Sing and not me, Yosef.
My head is spinning, and I'm not even drunk anymore!

Yes Yosef you are right I meant sing.my apologies.

tiger wrote on 14 Mar 2017 18:52:

Actually, I can pinpoint the exact time when I stopped a shtark learning seder.

December time. Every day I was doing halocha, shnayim mikra and Gemorah as well as running. We also have a shabbos kollel where we learn for 2 hours. Still doing that BH but mostly it's just for the money, haha.

Then my wife broke her foot. So whatever keviyus I had was thrown out the window. Though I still ran, haha. Though, I got up at like 4 in the morning and had an hour. And this is the point of contention that were I to dedicate that little bit of time to learning vs running, I might have gone insane.

So goodbye shnayim mikra, goodbye halocha, goodbye gemorah. I still haven't resumed the first 2 and for the latter, we're in a shiur now but I've just been so in the dumps these last two days, haven't had any motivation whatsoever to get up. Even for a run! 

I have a chavrusa and we were going about Bava Basra together and it was nice, but we joined a shiur and um, it's been nice, but what with my chav having a different work schedule, we seem to only get in like half an hour a day if anything and it feels so on and off, not really so gevaldik. I tried a night seder thing on tuesdays for 45 minutes and my other chavrusa didn't pitch and I just don't have it in me to learn on my own.

So this is what I mean when I say my learning has taken a "back seat". Lol sorry for the hijacking. Once again, South African.

In terms of doing for others, it's difficult for me I'm very closed off, socially, etc. But I resolved that when a yid asks for something, tzedokah or whatnot, I won't say no. I'll give. Even if it's a small amount. But not to say no and come up with some lame excuse. 

Also giving to my family. Helping with the dirty work. Making the wife feel good. And attending the fellowship meetings. Getting cake and drinks for our SAA meetings. using that hour to just listen to what other people are going through. I think I'm making progress, somewhat.

WWow really impressed with the cake part:)

About learning I also lost alot of learning time since I went to work (was in kollel for 5 years).

I find that a big reason why I don't get to learn is because my expectations are very high,so I end up doin nothin!!!!

I try to be moser nefesh(which means it's something I must do every day even if my eyes are rolled up from tiredness) to learn gemarah even with the loshon , misnayoes etc. And this I must do.

In other words chap where ever you can, and you will see that you end up with a nice amount!

Sorry to hear that you are in the dumps, try to brighten up, you have so much good in your life, you can accomplish tons with hashem ways, I can come over to your place and we can dance together:) 

Not the hugest milestone...but a step in the right direction.
30 days clean.
I haven't run AT ALL even though I like to exercise-walk/run.
It's hard to "fit it in".
And I'm NOT about to get up at 4 in the morning!
Though, 5am might actually be the best time to get up and do it!
Something to think about...and strive for...so thanks, Sing.

Mazel tov on 30 days! You worked very hard; had some challenging moments. Everyone is proud of you (not looking down at you - rather celebrating with you; knowing the pride you feel) It takes 30 days to properly prepare for a yom tov - and you have done that. So now it's yom tov. Time to celebrate a bit and give yourself a pat on the back. You have had a profound impact on many of us. Ask Hashem for the zchus to keep up the journey day by day, minute by minute, until we all bring our korbonos todah in the bais hamikdash soon.

Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 15 Mar 2017 22:40:

I like accomplishing 90% of my things before 9AM. It works for me for the most part.