Hi Silenbattle, thanks for reading my posts! I do do tha sometimes but usually i ma to ocused on getting away from the triggers so as not to ge tempted.

To you dov i say this. Maybe im wrong, bigheaded etc. etc. I do think that the torah has everythinng iin it, as chazal say sameh de'koileh bei, all the healing methods come from it Even more so, it can even reach to the lowest place and lift ou up to the highest, but you have to let it.
I am going to be more specific. My Rebbe, Reb Nachman of Breslov strongly advocates for an hourly session of hisboidedus, an hour that there is only me and hkbh, he writes that he main reason humanity is far from hashem is because we dont have hisboidedus. What i have seen by me is as long as i waas able to listen to my Rebbe's eitzois i was ok, (i have been clean for 5months in a go too) but i find it hard to do this daily so i drop the talking to hashem and within day i relapsed. Moshe rabeinu came dame with the twelve steps from mount sinai? I do beleive the 12 steps are a legit and good way to et out of addictions, but i beleive there is a better way and thats the way of the torah.

So the question is why dont i use thrah way? I think the answer to that is, that icant be bothered puttig in that much effoet!

You make a lot of good points, and I think that ultimately, each person needs to find what works for them. If you've found what works for you, then great - stick with that!

Unfortunately, when something requires too much effort, some people aren't able to keep it up forever. Especially when life (wife kids, etc) pull so much of our time and energy. When I hear someone ask, "where do I find the 12 steps in the torah?" What I hear is...well, I'll tell you what I don't hear. I don't hear someone saying, "Man, I'm involved in something terrible that destroying my life, making me unhappy, causing major damage to my soul, and just getting worse - I need to stop as quickly and effectively as possible, and I don't care how!"

If I'm sick, my first job is to get better. I can work on teshuva and other things later, when I'm well.

I must say, this thread has got me baffled.

(And I don't just say that about any thread.)

--Eye.

As you say silent battle because our aims are the same it doesn't make a difference how we get there, I think this may  answer eye as-well, I think our duty as yidden is to recognize that there is the Torah way and this is what we received at the mount. Borosi yetzer horah borosi torah tavlin. This is truth and lets be honest with ourselves nothing can replace this method.................................but if for whatever reason we find it hard to go through with the Torah way we can choose different methods.
We we musn't forget is, that the Torah is still the best way, and as soon as the reasons/excuses for not using the Torah goes away we go back to our roots. Or as a we Breslover chassidim would say is that at least when we're praying, pray that hashem show you the Torah way out of your problem,.

Gevalt, Levite. When you say above, "To Dov, I say this..." it baffles me. I have never told you that you need the 12 steps. Instead, I have always gone out of my way (even on this thread) to defend recovery methods other than the 12 steps. I need to do that as I'll try to explain later. I guess some folks hear me echoing "use the 12 steps!" because they know my history and they actually do not believe for a minute that I am truly and fully open to other d'rachim to sanity and HKB"H. Well, too bad. I am.

The day I begin to view the way that worked for me as the only way to a true relationship with my own G-d (which is the very definition of recovery according the the 12th step) is the day I will lose my sobriety. That's because it will mean that I have become an 'authority' or 'expert'. Then I have taken Hashem's place. It will mean that I believe I am the one running my recovery. Uh-oh. Ein bracha metzuyah ella b'davar hasamui min ha'ayin - that means that as long as I view the recovery as a gift from Hashem it'll work. When I 'have it all figured out' - where's the gift from Hashem? I got it all figured out! And I figure that'd mean that I really believe that I manufacture it - and can get others there. And the 12 step attitude that I was m'kabel is this: I cannot even keep myself sober - really - so how can I get you sober?! Hashem needs to do it for me...maybe you can do it for yourself, maybe not. Who am I to know what you can or cannot do? That's how I was sponsored and sponsor others. I do not ever keep them sober. Hashem does if they let Him, and if he wants to. (I assume He usually does...but that's another discussion that you can see more of in s'forim like Mei Hashiloach and elsewhere)

And if I haven't 'got it all figured out', then I must be open to other d'rachim!

If you actually read all this, you are a patient man! Thanks!

And just for the record, my Program taught me that I can actually ask Hashem to give me recovery through His Torah and I believe that would be what they call 'my chelek in Torah'. It is starting to teach me self-honesty. Since I view my problem as mostly a mental disease, I consider 12 step recovery as purely "Derech Eretz" which is kodmah laTorah. Meaning, before I approach His Torah, I need some sanity. As in "nosein chochma lachakeemin". And it is working nicely so far b"H. Not for everyone, that's for sure, but I love it and so do those close to me.