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my arrival story!
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TOPIC: my arrival story! 17755 Views

Re: my arrival story! 01 Jan 2010 14:37 #40991

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Reminds me of: before Odom Harishon sinned, the YH was a snake, outside his body. Odom had no desires to sin. He wanted to do only good. The Yetzer Hara came to  Chava and told her: you should sin, etc. today we think differently, because Hashem put the Tetzer Hara in us. Its: I want to do it. I wnna sin. And then the Yetzer Hatov comes to us and says: no u shouldn’t. - it helps me sometimes to think that he's only a snake…
Last Edit: by resilientkoala07.

Re: my arrival story! 01 Jan 2010 14:51 #40994

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Absolutely - R' Dessler says exactly your point (I think so, anyway. I try to never assume that I fully understand what R' Dessler is saying )

I like that image - am I going to listen to a snake?
Last Edit: by livelyfox42.

Re: my arrival story! 01 Jan 2010 15:00 #40999

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exactly... 
Last Edit: by adventurousbutterfly22.

Re: my arrival story! 02 Jan 2010 18:16 #41058

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yeah u guys got the point, Reb nachman was trying to say that the evil inside is a parasite something that isnt part of us,


If you learn to understand yourself, you can easily rid yourself of all fears and desires. Once you realize that they are baseless and that only this something inside you causes the fear or desire, you will be able to overcome everything.


 
Last Edit: by vibrantsparrow72.

Re: my arrival story! 03 Jan 2010 18:26 #41428

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Levite -
I feel that it is my duty to point out that all this discussion about the YH, snakes, in or outside of us, etc., is great. However, it doesn not get to the point, the ikkar.
I have found that I need to do certain things to get healthier. Understanding, per se, is of of no practical use to many of us. It may be part of the mitzvah of talmud Torah, yet not part of the mitzvah of T'shuvah, at all. It may be part of the mitzvah of t'shuvah for many - it simply delayed my recovery and lulled me into a false sense of security for almost 20 years. I was growing by leaps and bounds in depth of understanding of the damage of my chato'im, the need to fight my YH and emotionally feeling how great it'd be to go in the ways of kedusha, while my disease only progressed and my family sufferred. I am certain that my neshoma, and the Shechina Hak'dosha were not too happy about it either...
So, this discussion is great, for some, and may help many decide to leave the ta'vos for good.
But in this business, a decision is only that: a decision. Deciding or being motivated to go somewhere, doesn't get you anywhere, does it?
In my case, it made me feel like I actually went somwhere, which only prolonged the agony!

What we need is action.
What actions do Rebbe Nachman or others suggest,
that we will take today?




"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
Last Edit: by vibrantgiraffe34.

Re: my arrival story! 03 Jan 2010 18:41 #41441

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rebbereber=dov

wow!!!
Last Edit: by koachfromthemoach.

Re: my arrival story! 03 Jan 2010 18:43 #41443

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WOW!! Right on the money, rebbi. I think that ever sice i tried this approach ive finally gotten places in my recovery.
Last Edit: by gleefulviper86.

Re: my arrival story! 03 Jan 2010 19:46 #41465

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reb dov let me expl;ain it this way, to me number 1 is chazal and i beleive that something that doesnt hold water in the level of chazal, will not motivate me in the least to do anything!
but before you jump down my throat let me tell you one thing i have spent hours listening and reading both aa and sa litarature, both had effect on me and i beleive them to be true but i beleive that these thought are out there in chazal, in a  more empwering way if someone told me that believing in the fsm will cure my sickness, i would not take him on or try the idea for i would be losing the focus of why i came here, and i came here because "eloykeyhen shel eli soneh zimoh" my g-d hates promiscuity, and it is for that reson i seek to avoid it, of course it ruins my life for if hashem leaves my life what is left?
Im writing this here and i beleive that many of us guys who hang out here have this issue, i want this journey to be built from a point of view that belongs to my heritage, im using the modalitiey of aa to help me find the tools in chazal.
for example the piece taht i wrote above, you ask me what i did with it?
Well this afternoon i went out into a wooded area round here, and i started speaking to g-d about the sa issue, and i said ribonoi shel oilem i learnt this torah from my rebbe, he says that there is two parts of me that is intrested in p*** 1. the me that is intrested but can be dealt with rationally 2. a part with in me that is in my subconsious, a parasite that rational thinking cant help, ribonoi shel oiloim, my rebbe said that if i delve really deep into myself i can fix it, ribonoi shel oilom please hlp reach this parasite and throttle it.
So of course i agree eith you it all depend if you do i maseh with your thoughts, but it has to start somewhere
Last Edit: by DeletedUser14146.

Re: my arrival story! 03 Jan 2010 21:56 #41533

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Levite, thanks so much for sharing the above. I have always felt your posts to be from the heart. Hatzlocha.
And now another long rant.
Two points you make made a big impression on me and must have a response. No argument, just a share, really.
Before that, may Hashem to help me never jump on anyone or attack them for their experience or opinion. The day I do that, I will have crossed the line from being a sick person getting well with Hashem's help and th help of (His) people, to being an expert on anyone else's recovery, chas vesholom. Being an expert on my own recovery and sharing that, must always be enough for me, or I'm toast.

Point 1:  You bring out what some great people on this site have tried to do, which is essentially create a recovery fellowship and program that shows where the ideas grow out of chazals at every turn. That seems to be a fair request. In many posts, I have thrown in the p'sukim, etc., that do this for me. I use them in my davening and berachos on food, my relationships (mitzvos bein odom l'chaveiro) and in my understanding of Torah, as much as Hashem helps me do so. I feel as you do, that ultimately, knowing a recovery idea from a Torah source makes it more powerful and helps me identify with it more fully.
Here is my k'neitch:
I say "ultimately" - because whether I like it or not, the truth is the truth. If I'm killing myself with this stupid acting out and see that I need to do these things to stop and stay stopped, then I'd better get to it, chazal, or no.
For me - me, now - it was a matter of just growing up, sanity, derech eretz. Not a madreiga. Not what I had seem before that as avodas Hashem, per se. I saw that the solution to my problem lay in the inglorious underpinnings that "akeivo shel odom dosh bo" (oops, there I go again with chazal!). The simple basics like honesty, acceptance ot the truth, and willingness to change and using Hashem instead of just worshipping Him. Dodi li (oops!)...but I never heard it taught that way!
What you do when you go out and talk to Hashem, is the crux of the entire program as I see it. It's having a true, relevant, and personal relationship with your own G-d. AA says that that is the single desired result of the steps - just read the 12th step, there it is.
It's obviously what RaShBI zt"l is saying when he says that the 613 mitzvos are 613 eitzos (ittin), etc.
There really is no other game in town, period.

It's just that an addict, screwed up as he is, has no other option but to get that relationship if he wants to stay stopped.
Anyone can quit! I quit 250 times, at least. How about you? Now, "normal" folks - even though they do unhealthy behavior and even cheit sometimes - can get along without it....unfortunately. Now this is counter-intuitive: It's davka the one who is deep in either what we'd call unhealthy behavior (like gambling, drinking, drugs), or what we'd call cheit (lust, sex, violence) that needs (and can reach) the shoresh itself, though "normal" decent folks can hardly seem to reach at all! Do you get me here?
You apparently know what it's like to be compulsively using this schmutz, right? Is there anyone as unfortunate?
And yet - if we recover - is there anyone as fortunate as we? To really have Hashem and to really be for Him - imperfectly - but for Him!!

Which brings me right into point #2:
How did I, not being on any decent madreiga, reach this? The answer is not pretty.

I never succeded at stopping acting out for k'vod Shomayim or to keep the Torah. Sure, I'd love to frame it that way, especially cuz it'd make me look like a real tzaddik on a site like this! But I can't afford the lie.
Instead, I tell the truth - and some folks don't like it (and tell me so):
What got me to stop was that I saw that this was going to kill me. It was selfish, "enlightened" self-interest. It was a gift from Hashem,almost like a ruach - it rather suddenly became clear to me (while I was acting out the last time) that if I take one more step in the progression, I'd never make it back. It'd be over and I'd give up Hashem, me, my family, everything, just to keep acting out. I'd have done it - given all that up, for a while. I had sacrificed each of those things piecemeal on the altar of lust already, for years.
But something told me then, that I'd never get it back if I went a step further. And I knew that after that I would have nothing else to do but to just keep going on w/o a life until lust killed me.
But even though I wanted it (lust!!!) more than almost anything, I just didn't want to die.
So I got help.

So, you may wonder how point #1 brings me into point #2. Because that was the only motivation that actually worked to get me into action instead of watching my life slowly go down the drain. I had to see that I was going to lose myself. That's when really reaching for Him finally became OK. Reaching for Hashem was suddenly no longer a religious matter at all, no longer "being good". It was staying alive. Like my own personal "Kofoh aleihem hahar k'gigis" (Oops!)
Even though I was and would remain imperfect, might never amount to anything worthwhile, and would never be able torub out my record - I could reach for Him and just live - even without what I had been totally reliant upon till then: lust. 

We differ there, as you and many others here are doing things for Hashem, and I wasn't. As such, you may still have the luxury of building your recovery the way you want to - for Hashem's (and the Truth's) sake. Because it is the right thing to do.
I didn't have that luxury.
Nu. Unfortunately, I gave it up. 
I'm an addict. And there's only One pleasant way out of that.

Hope that helps clarify some stuff. We can be different, but still be friends and help eachother, right?


"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
Last Edit: by vibrantunicorn58.

Re: my arrival story! 04 Jan 2010 01:23 #41589

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Sorry, Reb Dov, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one  ;D ;D - like you said, hashem just made it clear to you, absolutely clear - he opened the world, let you see past the superficiality for a moment, and you saw that you were facing a moment of "es hachaim v'es hamaves."
Last Edit: by Kodesh8.

Re: my arrival story! 04 Jan 2010 12:51 #41719

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thanx dov! i read your post 3 times already, wow  u really have alot going there! bli neder when i have some yishuv hadas il reply
Silentbattle

i came here because "eloykeyhen shel eli soneh zimoh" my g-d hates promiscuity, and it is for that reson i seek to avoid it, of course it ruins my life for if hashem leaves my life what is left

my point exactly. I think iv told once that i like the name, vayismechu ki yishtoiku is possok said about an epic battle in the depth of the sea
Last Edit: by healingmongoose37.

Re: my arrival story! 04 Jan 2010 22:08 #42005

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fell  :o ???
ill be back on, i know that this is just a stop on my arrival journey but it is painfull. very painfull
Last Edit: by serenebutterfly08.

Re: my arrival story! 04 Jan 2010 22:18 #42014

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i just want to thank hashem for giving me the strength to stop at one fall and not more, ribonoi shel oilam i am so sorry, i really did not want to fall, you know it to be true!  :'( gvald tateh if you wont help me then who will, i know i cant, daddy dear can you forgive me?
tatte i know the rambam says in hilchos teshuvah that real azivas hacheit means that you so leave the sin that you hashem can bear witness to it, ribonoi shel oiloim how can i even come close to that? all i can ask is you bear witness riboinoi shel oiloim for if you will bear witness then i wil never fall again.
Father hear my plea, loi hen vloi schoren i dont want both the nisoyoi or the schar, i just want to be able to serve you, father even the cleaner in the palace, if he asks for a mop and a brush he gets it, im begging you for the tools i need to be close to you. Have i come in this world for this?
Ribonoi shel oiloim you will telll me that this is my nisoyoin on this world, and this is my work, ribonoi shel oiloim i know that with tefillah you can change all, im begging you 'va'ani kirvas eloykim li tov' i know whats good 'elcho vo'oshivoh el ishi horishoin ki tov li oz me'atah'
Riboinoi shel oiloim im writing this post to you for i know that you read this forum
can you be my accountability partner? ......................................................
Last Edit: by panyanwu96.

Re: my arrival story! 04 Jan 2010 22:40 #42040

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again  ??? :'(
Ki Nosesani Vatashlicheyni

im sorry hashem
i wont leave you and please dont leave me
Last Edit: by timeforhelp.

Re: my arrival story! 04 Jan 2010 22:41 #42042

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levite wrote on 04 Jan 2010 22:08:

fell  :o ???
ill be back on, i know that this is just a stop on my arrival journey but it is painfull. very painfull
Sorry man , im so sorry. But your reaction to your fall is brilliant!! We have to realize its not the falls and cleans that make us who we are, but rather its the change we are making in our inner selves. And that seems so apparant. So hatzlacha on your CONTINUED journey. Its not about start over start over its about dealing with the bumps and potholes on the way!
Last Edit: by vekiveisilo.
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