Hi all,
First of all, I know it's been a while. I've tended to be in and out of GYE lately. Here's the update: I realized about 2 months ago I needed to try a Taphsic shvua. I felt that my kabalos to give Tzedaka, etc. when I fell were not really working anymore. I think the shvua worked really well - I got to more than 50 days. But, (big but) - I started to feel some pressure, like I wanted to break the shvua or at least I wanted it to end soon. So my yetzer hara allowed me to be lazy and not renew it when it expired on Sunday, and today I had a fall - just like the old times, so to speak. I renewed my shvua but I'm afraid this will happen again in a few weeks or months, that I'll start to itch for a slip/fall and I'll just say "wait till it expires and then you don't have to worry about it!". Does this mean I need more help? Therapy, etc.? I've been approaching this whole thing from the beginning with the perspective that I can find some eitzah to make this work by myself. But maybe my tendancy to fall every few weeks/ months shows I need some outside intervention? Or am I being extra worried - that I need to give it more time and keep davening each day at a time?

Ha! I had the exact same story! The day my shvua ended I plunge into it again like a starving man and three hours before it was over I could've swore I wasn't gonna mess up!
So here's the deal as I see it, I believe that the taphsic method was the beginning of recovery for me but not bec of the sobriety rather bec... It was the first time that I didn't have a reason to LUST for weeks at a time, the first time I did it I was still staring at every woman on the street and the. I wondered why I fell after lol, I fell bec I was just pushing off the inevitable I was just waiting and dying for the last day to come to I can binge, but the next time I did it I noticed that when I stopped Lusting (bec it was pointless since I couldn't mess up anyway) I felt totally diff not like I was on a race runnin towards the finish line but rather like I was workin on my issue and if I mess up I mess up (and I did!) but the building blocks were there and I felt more in control of my sexual fantasies and desires I was RECOVERING regardless of abstinence...staying clean means nothing eg; a guy can watch porn or women in blknis or wtvr but as long as he doesn't finish the act would u call him clean?? Clean isn't just starving ur taiva it's working on the issue together with that
I hope I sorta answered ur question instead of me just ranting

mr.clean wrote: "I had the exact same story!
...staying clean means nothing eg; a guy can watch porn or women in blknis or wtvr but as long as he doesn't finish the act would u call him clean??

Clean isn't just starving ur taiva it's working on the issue together with that


Shivisi Responds:
I too had the same type of experience which you and bentorahyy related. Way (way,way,) back in my late teen years, after numerous unsuccessful attempts to just stop my daily acting-out, I decided that i just must get rid of this habit once and for all!
I thought of the "shvuah" idea, but decided that I wanted it to be "bullet-proof-unbreakable, so on the following Thursday morning, at krias Hatorah I asked the Gabbai in the yeshiva if I could do "Hagba". He agreed, and while I had the Sefer Torah in my hands I whispered to myself that "I hereby make a Shvuah on the Sefer Torah that I won't "act out" again - (I didn't use that term, which was unknown to me then, as matter of fact I think I didn't even know it was called m-b-ing)- for one whole month!
The first few days afterward, although I might some urges here and there, but I was still "fired up" with the energy of overpowering the taiva, and after a few more days it became routine. I was sure and proud of myself that i had found the successful method to beat this thing completely.
As I neared the end of the one month period, like the last 2 or 3 days, the urges started coming on again, at first weakly, then moderately, and as the finish-line drew closer the urges became stronger and stronger. But being the stubborn fighter that I was, i would not let the YH strike me down just so close to the victory bel1, so I white-knuckled it, and sheet-twisted it until the last day of the 30 days was over.
As I went to daven Maariv at the end of the last day, I was filled with thoughts of victory, and pride that even when the challenge was so tough I still was able to resist it and here I am at the finish line. BUT As soon as I was stepped out of Shmoneh Esrei I was overcome with the strongest tidal wave of lustful urge which totally encompassed my whole being. I didn't wait for the Davening to be over but made a beeline run for the exit, removed my hat and jacket "uniform", threw them over the nearest chair, and ran toward the nearest bathroom. After the first rush of MB, which was over as quickly as it was powerful, I felt an extreme hunger to satisfy my month-long starved lust, and I ran out of the building and headed toward a local newsstand shop, where I promptly bought SIX!!!! porn magazines! I ran back to the dormitory, locked myself in my room, and went on a wild out of control binge of acting out like a drunk in a pub on free drinks night!
when I was done, I was so totally wiped out both physically and emotionally, that I promptly fell asleep out of sheer exhaustion. (It was only by a miracle of Hashem's mercy that my roommates did not discover the "material " which was under my bed).
The next morning i woke up with a major depression hangover, and after disposing of the used materials I just threw myself back into bed and basically spent the day in depression.
In the evening, I decided that I had to find out why this had happened. Hadn't I made such an effort to defeat this, building such a strong barrier with a "Shvuah on a Sefer Torah"??!! How much more could anyone possibly expect???
I decided in desperation to consult one of my Rebbis and see if he could give me some guidence and advice to help me find out if there was any hope for me at all. It took me another day and a half of getting up the courage, and "text-planning-and-deleting-and-rewriting", to actually reproach him, and when I finally did, and I poured out my story and my total feeling of despair, at times with wrenching sobs and floods of tears, he told me just the thing which you [MR. CLEAN] have just pointed out.
He said "all you accomplished was to totally starve your taiva, but you did nothing to work on a course of action with which to build a resistance against it".
When I asked him what I was supposed to do, he told me - to learn the seforim which discuss the severity of this aveira, and the importance of shmiras habris, and shmiras haeinayim and machshovo etc. [This obviously didn't produce the result, thus It has taken me more than 30 years after that more until I finally found and boarded the recovery wagon. I don't blame him at all, since unfortunately there was not enough awareness about the issue of lust addiction then, as there is now - oy!where were you 30 years ago GYE??!!)]
Hatzlacha Rabbah, and much Seyata Dishmaya, bentorahyy, and thanx again Mr. Clean.

Thanks for the post, Mr. Clean (and I love the name). In my mind, meeting with a qualified, frum therapist is never a bad idea. Usually, if we are asking ourselves whether or not we need to speak to a professional, the answer is, "Yes, we do." I think everybody could benefit from learning about their mental constitution in a kosher, therapeutic environment. My point is (and if someone here disagrees with me, please, please chime in), GYE members can only offer you guidance, but, unfortunately, they can't answer the question, definitively, of whether or not you need to take things a step further.

In my experience, walking into a therapist's office for the first time doesn't necessarily have to lead to years and years of intensive psychoanalysis and support groups. It could, if you feel it should, but it could also lead to just one or two or three sessions as well. The choice is yours. This I will say definitively: Recovery is NOT a linear process. It's not going to be a straight-line for you from acting out to living clean, nor should it be. I do pray that your line, my line and the lines of all recovering yidden, are as straight as possible. But in the final analysis, that's the difference between our ideal visions of reality and the lives we really lead.

Also, if you do decide to meet with a therapist, know that you don't have to necessarily stick with him. Sometimes you need to go to a handful of different therapists to find the right one. A good therapist will make you aware of that, and ask if you're comfortable talking to them.

And one more thing. I'm assuming that, for your particular circumstances, using a therapist would not invite too much scrutiny and beg too many questions from your wife, family, community, etc. Again, it's a personal question that needs to be answered, and only you could weigh the benefits. I don't want to push you in that direction if the benefits, at this point, don't outweigh the headaches. Everyone's situation is different. And while therapy, as I said, is never a bad thing in and of itself, I don't know how disruptive it would be to your life. I'm just trying to exercise some sensitivity to your unique situation.

I never took a Shvuah, or Hagbaah, because I have two bad shoulders, but prior to coming here, I experienced binges of purchasing porn and masturbation as described above. So far, I have been Tahor-which I can only ascribe to my finding help with a great therapist who allowed me to spill my guts out about the depth of my addiction and what triggers it , the chevra here, and a realization that I have a great Eshes Chayil, great family and aineklach and friends, and that whatever financial and emotional frustrations I have experienced really don't count in the long run.

Thanks everyone. It definitely feels good to be understood, and I certainly wish hatzlacha to all of you as to myself. I have gone back and forth about whether I should have some kind of therapy, as anyway this isn't the only thing I could use work on. Other things include feeling down more than I'd like, not being able to communicate as effectively as I would like with my wife, and feeling very self-conscious / focusing on my emotional reaction when my wife says something to me rather than the content. I tend to "shut down" when I sense that she's upset at me - even if it's not true and she's just frustrated at a situation. Bottom line is, I sense these are all inter-related - how to get in touch with myself and be able to control my feelings/be able to accept what happens without getting so nervous.

I guess I got off topic a little...for now I have a new shvua and I think I need to practice asking Hashem every day to help me move forward, and to continue focusing on the real things that should make us happy. I just feel I'm naive to think I've got the problem solved. At this point I don't think a live 12-step group makes sense - my position now is I go for several weeks/months at a time without falling, I'm concerned a live group would expose me to much more than I need to be. But - maybe I'm wrong. My feeling is to continue trying Taphsic, etc. and continue practicing simcha in life, etc. Am I avoiding what I really should be doing? That I need to open up to a real live person?

Nah, I personally Don't think ur avoiding anything of course if u have a rebbe to speak to that would be ideal but u seem to have normal issues that anyone can have that u just wanna work on.therapy can never hurt but "avoiding"...from what u described it doesn't seem like ur avoiding. unless of course u feel that these issues may be bigger then u have/can describe in this forum... Also regarding the live meetings ur def right with that, def do not go if ur falling is only once in a while. That doesn't mean that it's ok what ur doing, don't get comfortable with what ur doing bec it won't go away on its own... But again talking to a rebbe would prob be the best thing. that would be something that may prove to be very very helpful... Hatzlacha!