Hi every one i just heard
about this group and seems to be the perfect thing for me. Im 17 in yeshiva and my main problem is bain hazmanim.

Any way could i join this group?

I'm would love to have you join.
The more the merrier i say.
But i suppose this needs a group vote.
(don't forget your mandatory program name submission )

Of course, the more members the better!

On a less positive note, I fell last night. Since I took like a 3-hour long shabbos nap, I was sleeping very fitfully, and sometimes I have nights were the habit kicks in my sleep. So I'd have it in my sleep, and I'd unconsciously fight in my sleep/wake up and fight it, until I eventually gave in. This happened at around 3:25; I couldn't fall back asleep till 3:50, so I learned until 4:20. Fell asleep, and then dream w/ keri at 4:50. Same thing happened at 5:50. What a bad night!

I thus apologize profusely to everyone, but looks like we'll all be saying Tikkun Klali.

I was thinking about the structure of the group / things we could all take on (aside from names, I'll leave that to inastruggle), and I thought of the following rules:

Attitude:

1. COMPLETE HONESTY. Without that, nothing will work. We must update the website the day after a fall (unless we don't have access to the internet, which is probably a great thing).
2. No feeling ashamed. We've all struggled, and there's nothing to get down about; we'll fight this together.
3. Recognition that this isn't "fall v. no fall". It's "living versus not living"; as Dov says, I don't care which lav suicide is, I'm not doing it for many other reasons. Thus, in solving this problem, while we won't magically become more kadosh (that takes time), we are giving ourselves opportunities to tackle issues head on, grow closer to Hashem, and really start living. Unlike inastruggle, I still think I am "addicted", just to a lesser extent than the others.
4. As the point is to "start living", we should all recognize that it isn't "once we reach 90 days, life will magically be rosy and amazing". B"H, it will be tremendous when we (and we most certainly will) reach 90 days together, but it's not a goal in and of itself.
5. We are a group; we aren't clean ourselves until everyone is clean. At the same time, we should daven for each other and rejoice in each other's successes, even if we are struggling ourselves.

Kabbalos:
1. The Tehillim idea, starting with Tikun Klali and then what should we add on from there?
2. Posting on the forum twice a week, letting our chevra know how we're doing.
3. Explaining how we will implement the TaPHSiC method, or measures that we will take personally.


For example, I myself am going to take on a neder for the next week that I will learn for 5 minutes immediately prior to any fall, or else I will owe $100 to tzedaka. (Such a measure could have prevented my last fall.) I am also saying that I will only use my laptop computer (which has a K9 filter) when alone in the house; I won't use my iPod, phone's, or desktop computer (which doesn't have a filter)'s internet when alone in the house.

I'm also trying to figure out ways to cut down on internet usage. You see, at school I'd eat lunch in the computer room, and spend 6 and 7th periods there (I had 6th as an off period, and my 7th period class was in the computer room). So basically, I've accustomed myself to using the internet a lot, and I'd like to slowly wean myself away.

Do you guys think that what I posted is reasonable for all of us to take on?

hopefull wrote:


Welcome to the brotherhood!!

BSD: I have been able to speak to someone about my entire problem on the phone. It somehow made a much bigger impact on me - i encourage all of you to do so. I will speak to another person in the near future.
Since that conversation I have come to following conclusions:
1. I cant change the past, I also cant change the future the only thing in my power is to make the most i can of this very moment.
2. I stopped counting days, I'm taking every breath at a time, thanking hashem for giving me this life and being clean - so I think counting days is gigantic stira to that.
3. I did make a taphsik shvua regarding not to watch movies (40usd for 10min watching). But will not make taphsik regarding the prevention or punishment of the actual fall - i feel that it doesn't take care of the problem, its just locking up the shmutz within me - and not dealing with the problem.
4. Try to see this as a great opportunity to grow and get closer to hashem - therefore to keep smiling and be besimcha!! (-hardest step)
I don't know if this is the right thing and I DO NOT want to discourage anyone from doing what they have. But for myself I feel this is the path I have to take.

Chachaman and innastruggle: I want to take part in the tehilim idea and will try to post more then once a week if Internet connection is present.

Should we also formulate a group prayer to say when in trouble?

Like, I know a lot of people find it helpful to formuulate a prayer to Hashem whenever they are in trouble. Does anyone have good ideas?

Is a W/dream Keri considered a fall? I didn't see it on the 90 day rules.

Before the 2 Keri incidents, I woke up and fell, so that counts. Otherwise, Keri doesn't count.

What are the guidlines for a fall

I just found this under 90 day chart rules.

What constitutes a "Fall" to require restarting the count?
There are "slips" and there are "falls". "Slips" do not require restarting the count. "Falls" do require restarting.

A "Fall" is one of the following things:

1) Intentional masturbation

2) Intentionally viewing improper sites

3) Intentionally calling inappropriate telephone numbers

4) Intentionally seeking out and reading erotica

5) Worse things, which I need not mention.

In regard to number 2 (and 4), if someone saw something by mistake and then got a little bit carried away and kept looking at it, or even if someone saw a link and couldn't resist clicking on it but then catches themselves within a few seconds, that would only be considered a "slip", not a "fall". However, if someone decides to actively pursue viewing bad sites chas veshalom, that would be considered a FALL and require a restart of the count (by letting us know).

Also, each person can set their own criteria for what they consider a "slip" for themselves. But as long as they did not do one of the 5 things above, they can stay on the chart if they want.

Does every one agree to this...

Chachaman wrote:


This story really helped me understand the concept of avona:

A young man (a chutzpanyak) once approached the Chazzon Ish ZTL and asked him: "You are a smart man and of course you realise that you are the greatest talmid chacham of the generation. Knowing this, how could you possibly be a baal gaava??" The Chazzon Ish replied "Of course I realise where I stand, but with my strength I should have achieved much more"
Not being a Baal Gaava doesn't mean to deny to yourself what you really are. Moshe Rabeinu knew that "there will not rise a Navi like Moshe" However the Torah says that he was the biggest anov. Anava means to realise that there is so much more potential in us - and although we reached a new level - but we could be so much further.
So the guy next to us that is not having Kavana - hes doing great great - because hes doing all within his power. But regarding ourselves "we could be doing so much more"

.........So give it, give it, give it all you got!!! (8th Day)

But I feel like I'm still not doing what I'm supposed to by assuming that the guy next to me doesn't have kavanna. I guess it goes back to judging people favorably (something I struggle with too).

Your answer helps a lot, though. Thanks!

Great week BH, (Shouldn't we be serving cheesecake now? )

This week was more than only a clean week for me. It was like living a different and new life. I started writing a journal: Every day I draw 2 check boxes. They are tasks that I must to fulfill for each day, two basic thoughts in action:
1. Did I internalize today that everything comes from Hashem?? (all the good all the hardships etc.) - HOWEVER that is way too general!! So next to the check box I'm must to write what SPECIFIC thing I perceived coming from Hashem. Like THIS stomach a is coming straight from Hashem! (-for my own good) The entire day is seen from a totally different perspective.
2. Did I internationalize today that I only control my effort but not the outcome - of EVERYTHING! (Got that one from Dov, although its basics in yiddishkeit, thanks Dov). And as above I have to write the specific action tied to this point. Life has become much less stressful since i have applied this to real life.

If i forgot to complete during the day, I will think back before going to sleep to the occurrences of the day and apply the above.

Funny thing is that I always knew this Information. However feelings and knowledge are not automatically linked. You have to turn on the switch manually. By applying them to day to day life they becomes real!!! In Yeshivish: Making these Yesodos "Halacha Lemayasa


I still have some issues with the above:
About 1. But what when I'M to blame - it feels the implications are not coming from Hashem buit rather from my faults and shortcomings.
Regrading 2. I often feel "I haven't given it all my effort" - You always could do even better.. Any insights??
Regardless of the two problems these are true foundations of yiddishkeit and I will continue to apply them. (Fun a kashe shtarbt men nish ) And if i haven't said this yet: Highly recommended!!

Thanks for the post!

Maybe we can consider the Michtav Me'eliyahu's idea of Nekudas Bechira

Avrom wrote:

The answer to both questions is "don't think too much". Just keep doing what is working and save the lomdus for the beis medrash.

Baruch Hashem (assuming no one is withholding anything), we've made it 9 days TOGETHER!

I'm finding that if I really put my mind to it I can stop. Of course, the koach of the Y"H is that of Amalek--sowing doubt. I wonder how long my firm conviction will last until I say "oh, what the heck". Of course, I'm not worried about the future though, just right now

How is it going for everyone else? Hopefull, we haven't heard too much from you--do you have a link to your story or anything you've posted?