About 1.5 years ago I was on the 90 day journey, I even logged my post here.  Wow, it's actually quite emotional to be back.  Well I am back, and the reason is because I acted out on 12/13, making my new sobriety date 12/14. I'm not sure who's going to read this, but if it's you, then you should know nothing is by accident and Beezras Hashem something I say will help you in your own journey.  I had about 1.5 years of descent sobriety. It defenitely wasn't as clean as it could be, in fact about 5 months in I even almost master**ted until completion, but stopped.  There were also times where I looked at Porn, got involved in innapropriate conversations, etc... but all in all it was a great time.  But there was something missing from my sobriety.  I just wasnt getting it.  I would go for a month or two without looking at anything, and then one day go look at porn.  Sometimes I spent hours doing this.  So while according to the SA definition of sobriety I was technically sober, I was definitely losing my sobriety.  There is a great line in the white book, which reads "sober is not well".  Roy K wrote this line, describing that despite having years of sobriety, he was still an irritable mess who was constantly losing his temper.  We call this a "dry drunk".  Now I'm not going to beat myself up, but there were many times during this past 1.5 years that I was definitely a "dry drunk".  There were many times, and still are many times, where I find myself paralyzed by fear.  Mostly economic fear.  And I would get discontent.  I remember thinking, "I thought everything is supposed to work out now that I am sober".  And the funny thing is 99% of things did work out, but I was always so scared that they wouldnt!  What I was missing was the emunah part of it all, which is steps 2&3.  You see, this program is about finding a Higher Power. But not just any HP, a HP that actually loves you.  Yes, LOVES YOU.  And not only that, loves you UNCONDITIONALLY.  Can you believe that?  Well I can, because even though I was still sick during my 1.5 years of sobriety, nevertheless I was able to slowly start to heal and once I started to heal one of the things that started to change was my conception of a HP. You see, up until recently my HP was an insatiable perfectionist, ready to smite me down if I delivered anything less than utter perfection.  Hmmm, now that I think of that sounds more like my father than my HP (you see the connection here?).  But the biggest chiddush that I learned over the last 1.5 years is that our view of a HP is really a reflection of the relationship we have with ourselves.  You got that?  For me this is the ikkur yesod of recovery. When I realized that it wasnt Hashem who hated me, but rather I hated myself. And it wasnt Hashem who couldnt forgive me, but rather I couldnt forgive myself, my eyes OPENNED UP.  This meant, that if I could learn to forgive myself, then I would be able to picture a HP that could forgive me.  And even better, if I could learn to love myself than I can have a HP who loves me!  You see, I dont think there is any way I can feel Hashem's love until I love myself.  And this leads to what I believe is the whole point of recovery:  learning to love others, our HP, and ESPECIALLY ourselves.  I can bring so many proofs for this, just google "low self esteem and addiction" and you will come across hundreds, maybe thousands, of professionals who agree that the root of addiction stems from low self esteem, or lack of self love (they're the same thing).  Rabbi Twerksi himself claimed "I never met an alcoholic with good self esteem".  So I, and many others, believe that the root of all healing lies in creating a good sense of self esteem, because it really is the only way to finding a loving HP. Now you might ask, but where is this found in the steps? Well I have only one possible answer for this and it's as follow:  it's assumed that when you do step 2 and recognize that there is a higher power who loves you enough to take away your disease that you will then come to appreciate your self worth.  After all, why would G-d do this miracle for me if I wasnt worthy of love?    As time went on, and with the encouragement of my sponsor and my Rav, I started to practice the art of self love  (I would text things I liked about myself to my sponsor on a daily basis and as well read Azamrah by Rabbi Nachman and just generally focus on my good traits) I began to feel that this is what I was missing.  It seemed that practicing self love, self acceptance, and self forigivness really had an amazing power to fill the void.  I also noticed I was beginning to be able to love others more, now that I was starting to love myself.  Maybe the saying you can't love others until you love yourself was starting to make sense.  So I was I becoming more and more convinced that it was self love, and the inner simcha and peace that it brings that would bring lasting change for me.  You see, before this, I thought that beating myself up and focusing on what I'm doing wrong would change me for good.  As if the pain of my self judgement and abuse was going to burn away my character defects.  The problem with this way of thinking was that it didnt work.  If it did, I wouldnt feel a need to look at porn every month or so.  And the thing that solidified this new approach the most was, believe it or not, Rav Nachman.  I was talking with a Rav about my stuggles with self esteem and addiction and he told me to buy this little book by Rav Nachman called "Azamrah".  I bought (from amazon.com) and read it, and was amazed.  Here was a tzaddik who was confirming everything that I was thinking until then.  Rav Nachman explains that it is depression, not gaavah or anything else, that causes us to sin.  When we truly are happy, we dont sin.  This makes perfect sense to me.  If I'm feeling good (not that superficial feeling good, but that deep inner peace and contentment) I dont need to act out. This might explain why I never had a taavah to act out on shabbos, because on shabbos I always felt a sense of peace and connectedness.  It's when I'm not feeling good, rather feeling pain, that I run for my drug.  Pashut.  So how does he say you find simchah?  He says through focusing on your good points. Wow!  What a chiddush!  I would have though he would say through doing a mitzvah like talmud torah or chesed, but no, the way to true simchah is being able to focus on your good points.  And when we do that we don't come to sin.  So in modern lingo, what Rav Nachman is saying is that self esteem keeps on away from sin.  Did you Google "addiction and low self esteem" yet?  If you didnt you may want to do that now, because you'll see that thousands of pyschologists are saying the same thing, the only difference is Rav Nachman discovered this hundreds of year ago.  I can tell you guys that self esteem has been the biggest issue for me.  If I had to guess the reason why Hashem put me here I would say its to work on this, because it's been my biggest challenge since I can remember. But now that I'm working on self love, and have resolved to live in love, I can tell you that I am feeling amazing things that I never thought possible.  I am starting to feel whole again. I am starting to feel worthy.  I dont need everyones approval. I am able to laugh at myself and not always take myself so seriously. Sometimes.  I'm still working on this and am very far from perfect but sometimes I really do feel this way and it's becoming more and more often as time goes on. So i found this gift and want nothing more than to share it with you.  You can love yourself too.  Make lists about the things your doing right and text them to a GYE friend. You can even text them to me, just email me at workingmyprogram@gmail.com if you want my number.  I really hope you guys can take what I said to heart.  Self love is the foundation of our relationship with Hashem, our steps 2&3.  It's what gives us the simchah that we need to live our life.  It's when will allow us to begin making decisions based on love and not fear (you have no idea how good it feels to say to yourself I'm learning, or davening, or working because I want to, out of love, and not because I have to).  I can love myself today.  I am a good person.  I don't need to be perfect to be worthy of love, both Hashem's love and mine.  I forgive myself out of love and forgive all others too.  I have a new opportunity to live.  I love you Hashem and I love you GYE.  Thank you.I can

I must admit that for me too, there were ups and downs, just as you point out. And for real, to be really honest, I have never been as sober as I am now. No joke and I am sorry for pointing this out, I was a "dry drunk" and I am still an addict. You are so right, self esteem is so important....

Uf, I found so much of myself in your writting, that i am bablpbeling here like crazy.

Anyway, I find the positive traits (to search for them and write them down) is a crucial part of the personal inventory (STEP 4). And please don't be upset, forgive me (to You workingmyprogram and everyone), I find one has to write everything down, the good and the bad. If I put just the good down, then I am blinding myself and if I put just the bad down, then too I am just the half. (I have to put the bad down first, because it's bothering me so much and then the good)

So I wish you all the best and thank you. I found so much of myself in what you write. And it really gives me hope, because it's not just self esteem here - so much is linked to it. As you said, how can we love anyone without this crucial step. (how do we give understanding, love, patience, all of that, if we don't see it in ourselves)

For real, it is about respect and honesty to oneself in the steps. No one is a harder judge then oneself especially in step 4, but to be a fair judge is just as important. And there you go, important positive traits: honest and respectful.

Is this my old friend Yehoshua?  And brother, no need to ask for forgiveness!  I agree that at some point you need write everything down, because that's step 4.  What I'm talking about is treating the disease of our low self esteem.  As the Rambam says, when we find ourselves veering too far off in one direction, we sometimes need to go to the other extreme to balance back in the middle.  So for anyone with low self esteem, it may be a good idea to go to the other extreme by focusing exclusively on our good traits until we balance out in the middle.  This doesn't mean you can't be doing step 4 work at the same time, I dont know, maybe you can. But if not at the same time, then for sure before or after.

You see, my goal is not only to be sober. Physical sobriety for me is just not enough.  Why not? Because I was sober and I saw how miserable I was at the same time. The reason was becuase I was constantly beating myself up and focusing on the bad.  I was never good enough. My sobriety was never 100% perfect and I was always falling short in other areas.  I would waste time at work, not get to sleep on time, get annoyed at my wife, there was always something.  I was so focused on my shortcomings that I never felt good about anything i did.  I would spend ZERO time thinking of the thousands of good things I did that day, and all my waking hours focusing on the few bad things I did. Is it any wonder I was unhappy??? So rather than being just sober, my goal is to be both sober and "well".  I define wellness as living in a state of love where I love myself, Hashem, and others.  I once had an amazing therapist who was a true chacham (he told my brother that the Square Rebbe would go to him for advice).  He was an old holocaust survivor who would say hello to EVERYBODY he passed on the street, ALWAYS!  He told me he picked Reb Yaakov Kamenetsky to be his rebbe because he always saw him smiling.  After seeing my issues he told me that I needed to turn my life into one big "love affair" with Hashem, myself, and others.  Those words really stuck with me and I am just now really trying to implement them.  Also, I'm not saying that the lists are even the best way to get to the goal of self love (btw, the goal really isnt self love.  The goal is to love others and Hashem, but I don't think you can get there without first loving yourself, as I've heard from many people).  There may be a better way.  I'm just doing what I know, and am happy to hear other suggestions. I would actually LOVE to hear other suggestions because this goal is very important to me.  I also wanted to say that it really is such a shame that beating ourselves up has become so fashionable in the 12 step circles.  It seems that when the book calls for a "leveling of our pride" and "admitting our faults", many people are taking this to mean that we should be constantly beating ourselves up and flattening ourselves.  Never allowing ourselves to be built up or take credit for anything.  I think this attitude stems from the fact that Gaavah may have very well played a role in our acting out, and many people equate self love with Gaavah. But they are 2 DIFFERENT THINGS!  Completely different!  The gaavah that caused us to act out, 9 times out of 10 is really just a defense mechanism for our low self esteem.  We're feeling so crummy about ourselves that we need to overcompensate with Gaavah. Someone with true self esteem will never become a Baal Gaavah because he doesnt have to feel good about himself.  His good feelings are already there as a result of his awareness that he was created betzelem Elokim and has a beautiful neshama with amazing spiritual capabilities.  This makes him feel self love, and more importantly, gratitude for the One who created him with this!  It is such a shame to see how people, many of whom have years of sobriety, are so reluctant to let themselves see this.  It seems that yetzer is fighting this tremendously, because he knows that if we realize our true inner beauty and greatness we would become spiritual powerhouses.  So he'll let us have sobriety, but G-d forbid we should have self esteem too, that would just be too much! Yehoshua, thanks so much for your post and I would love to hear your feedback. Like I said before, I don't have all the answers, much of what I'm saying may not be 100% true (consult your local orothodox Rav), but I'm just sharing some of the insights i"ve come to, while on this amazing and beautiful journey.

Working, thanks for these wonderful posts. i printed them out and read them over shabbos. i just saw something similar in a sefer, bl'n i will post it.
thanks very much

So well put working. Waiting to hear more from you....

this is from the sefer Karva El Nafshi by Rav Kluger of Beit Shemesh

Disclaimer: I'm not coming here to disagree, nor to argue. All I want to do is share that there is another way out there that works, so it is valid. It doesn't pasul any other way - but it does demonstrate that many people do not need to love and feel great about themselves before they can start staying sober for long periods and before they can start getting well. And we never finish getting well, really - we never "arrive", do we? Have you? I haven't. "Yehudi hu tamid baderech," anyway...

I know that Rav Twerski and other good people have taught (or seems to many to have taught) the idea you refer to.

Finally, I am certainly not suggesting what is right for you or other
individuals to do. I just want to open a door that seems locked, to those who wish to try and go this way.

I agree that simply not having sex with myself or anyone other than my wife is still not nearly 'enough'. It's a negative sobriety, and not a recovery of anything. But we ought to be honest with ourselves and admit that once we really stop masturbating or using porn compulsively, we find ourselves in a place where - had we really been there all along - we'd never had really felt this desperation for getting all the good things of recovery, anyhow! We'd bleib coasting - like most people are and will be, till they die. Interestingly, then, it is my sickness that saves me from the unexamined life, not my 'greatness'.

By the same token, this is the only reason that this very day I still need G-d as much as I ever did: to live life in a way that doesn't just look or sound good, but actually works. I need it, while the do-gooders do not. And it was the addicts who taught me that being clean from acting out (ie., sobriety) is only vauable inasmuch as it is the gateway to being able to come to live life right - if one is an addict. That's recovery. It's not about 'being good', nor about being 'a better person'.

Plenty of good yidden do bad things, even sexually bad things. Very bad things. But they can still go on living life right, in the general sense. It's still acceptable to them. They may do a good Teshuvah for the ma'aseh, they may do a weak one. It does not wreck their lives, for they can move on.  But an addict cannot do that successfully, for we are too sick. This is what the 1st step means when it says 'Powerless' (to use lust successfully) and that our lives are 'unmanageable'. Addicts have a cyclical, repeating, and progressively worsening habit. It eventually sucks the life out of us, isolates us from all others, makes us disgusted with ourselves and with others, makes us need to have a double life (not principally out of shame, but mainly in order to protect out ability to keep using our drug unimpeded by 'pesky' and nosy Society), and ruins more and more of our lives every year that goes by.

But I have found that making being sober today - and not accepting any other option - is the only way I can actually eventually grow and recover. It is not the growth itself, but the only ticket into recovery. It is what Chaza"l would refer to as mafteichos chitzoniyos, rather than mafteichos p'nimiyos. I have met many who wanted to "recover" and become "healthy" without making their lives dependent on sobriety today. They take luxuries like occasional porn and inappropriate sex use - and misinterpret the terrible regret afterward as 'growth'! Intense? Yes - but true? No. After a few years go by they discover they are nowhere. They seem to live in a fantasy religious world - and their lives end up a very interesting...shambles. So, you and I are at least on the same page about that. Now...

if I could take the liberty of trying to summarize the two sides here...

1) I need to see the good in me.

2) I need to feel that G-d loves me unconditionally.

I think #2 is the foundation.  I think it leads to self acceptance.  I don't beat myself up, but accept that hashem made me this way and loves me the way I am.  That is not to say, that I don't need to grow, but it frees me from obsessive perfectionism.  I think #2 may allow me to see the good in myself - which is #1.

I have found that purely trying to see the good in myself (#1) doesn't really work for me unless I first accept that G-d loves me unconditionally.  I think even Twerski and others talk about self esteem coming from the fact that G-d created me, not that I have maylah x, y, or z.

Make sense to anyone?

To me, it is so important to accept that presuming the ability to be able to figure out or understand why Hashem loves me so much, is just hubris. So I choose not to do it. Just like I choose not to check whether 'that news story has something in it that I shouldn't see'. Surrender, acceptance of my place...it's all the same. And it leads to living right-sized, for a change.

Hubris leads me to take over again - in my mind. Whenever I have ever taken over and edged G-d out (E.G.O.) it was happening in my mind. Eventually I'd act out. To lust for understanding something that is not my business, is just as ill as my lusting for a better view of that woman in the window...not my business, either. Not "an aveiro", but just not my business. That's the truth. Gotta remember that....

Ultimately, masturbating myself is just taking the reigns again and playing G-d, isn't it? "Obviously You (Hashem) are doing a very poor job at taking care of me....I know just what to do."  :'() That's how it always is, as far as I am concerned.

His love and cherishing of me is His business, not mine. Simple.

Other people do not need this, that's all. No big deal.

dov, would you agree that a person needs to feel that G-d loves him, and the flipside, feeling that G-d hates him - is bad for sobriety/recovery?