;D ;D ;D, sad, but funny.

The truth is, I have nothing to offer to anyone here, except an occasional cheer, a tuna wrap recipe, and a translated vort from someone else. So I ask a lot, voice my opinion a lot, and put my foot in my mouth a lot.
There was something I said here , to which Dov replied here , that I commented on here, to which Dov took great offence here.
I don't want to hijack another's thread, but I feel that addressing the issues(s) point by point will bring to greater clarity, and will eventually benefit everyone.
So first of all, my quarrell is not with Dov the Person. I don't know you from Avrom, Yitzchok and Yankev, and I am sure you have qualities that I only aspire to one day come close to. So nothing I said was a comment on your persona, and if it came off that way, I appologize.
But you are a strong, opinionated, and experienced voice of recovery, you advocate very strongly for a particular approach to recovery, and you are very vocal in debunking other methods.
I can't see anything wrong with posing questions to your answers, and I certainly don't see anything wrong in NOT giving your opinions the status of Toiro MiSinai.
Like I said, if at the end of the day the truth will become more apparent, I will be the first among many to benefit, even if I'll have my assumptions proven wrong and my ego stomped on in the process.
So you took exception (twice) to my saying that Experience seems to be your G-d, and then proceeded to point out that true emuna is found in the heart, not in the Book, and that heart equals experience. My "observation" was merely that, an observation, and I didn't imply in any way that you're wrong in this approach. In fact, my argument with you was experience-based, not Toiro-based, machloikes rishoinim-based, or any such thing. Moreover, if I misunderstood you, it's unreasonable to accuse me of maliciously misrepresenting you in the same breath. I represented you in the way I understood you, and I meant no disrespect.
At the same time, if there is a disagreement between mine (or yours) experience and Da'as Toiro, the latter should take precedence. I don't know if you always agree with that; from your posts I gather that Toiro was written for normal people, not for addicts, and therefore should be interpreted defferently in the context of addiction. Again, if I misunderstand, please don't misinterpret it as an insult.
Not that I can speak for Da'as Toiro. Clearly, my hashkofo is screwed up enough to have allowed me to fall into a filthy habit, and consequently, addiction.
So back to experience, I didn't realize there was a "who knows more strippers" contest, but I'll concede the defeat. I know that Candy, Cinnamon, and Melissa are not their real names. That doesn't take away from the point that they need the first names to truly have you wrapped around their finger. The fact that the names are fake is irrelevant, in my opinion: in my head, this IS her name.
I also conceded that using the first names when I have to, will not make me mentally rape them. However, the fact that Toiro has an opinion on the matter, should not be discounted, and it seemed to me that your saying "hilchois yichud are not there to stop rapes" was dissing Toiro in favor of expereince. NU. I'm not sure I should be repeating myself, but since this is a new thread: Just because my expereince is that passing an object to my wife while she's nidda will not make me "want her", this experience should be neglected in favor of Da'as Toiro.
Yes, we may argue what Da'as Toiro is; we may bring testimony from G'dolim who behaved seemingly in contradiction to our perception of D.T. (as in UAJ's story of Rebba, gabbai, and a girl); but not to rely on D.T. lechatchilo because our experience implies differently, and then take offence when being called on it?
I didn't say first names should never be used. I didn't say that anyone who uses first names acts in opposition to Da'as Toiro. I suggested that this is one of the tools that Toiroseinu Toiras Chaim has prepared for us to aid us in our struggle. I am puzzled why you found this offensive. Neither have I ever suggested that halocho should be the only guiding principle in addiction recovery. And I am not in the least offended by the fact that you seem to imply that I said this. You don't know me either. So what.
And finally. I AM looking forward to the day when I have 13 years of sobriety experience. Whether you should be a role model for that....I think that your position on this forum kind of puts you on the role model pedestal, whether you (or me) like it or not. You venture very strong opinions, and you dismiss other opinions equally as strong. I think that in your rush to condemn someone's approach you forget that the guy does not have 13 years experience in thinking and talking these things out. My intent in pointing this out was just that: you spent last 13 years digging into this problem. Most of us haven't even scratched the surface. If you take this into account when pontificating your next point, perhaps you will be more accepting of  opinions of others, misguided as they may be. I, for one, benefit greatly from expressing myself and getting feedback from fellow "know-nothings". In 13 years, I hope to have certain concepts cleared up, just as you have. Until then, please don't misinterpret my confusion as malice.
I was looking forward to your reply; I am happy I got it; I will be happy to get more. 

OK, so maybe I had a bad day. Sorry. We could do better if we talked on the phone, you know. And it's 14 and a half years, so far. Not 13. Time flies like an arrow, and fruitflies like bananas, you know.

Machul, machul, machul.
so it's 14 and a half years, is it?

You must have very little ego compared to me.

You must have been cheating by rubbing elbows with Bards.

Gevalt. Thank you for that note.

Well, it's really only one day (at a time), and always has been. Funny, my wife informed me in what I was calling the 11th year (when people asked me, not that I was counting), that I had done the math wrong and it was really the 12th year! That's what one gets for emphatically telling so many guys to quit counting the days, months and years.

OM and Dov.  I love you both  :-*.

Gibbor, thanks for the love. Even a hardened a&&hole like myself can use a little loving, nd certainly someone who's soft-hearted.
dov wrote on 11 Nov 2011 00:24:

As far as talking on the phone:
First of, thanks for your repeated offer.
Let me make a disclaimer to all the guys who offered to call me, actually did call me, or expect me to call them:
I suck on the phone. I have a thick accent, I am slow in my responses, and I generally just freeze and smile and nod my head, which is too bad 'cause you can't see it.
That is why I chose live meetings as opposed to call-ins. At least in person I can make up with body language for my offensive intonations and illegible speach.
And that is why I like the forum so much, 'cause I can edit and edit and there is no rush to get the full thought out. Apparently, my editing needs to start taking people's feelings into account, not just ideas.
So please don't get irked with me if your voice messages are not returned. They are still appreciated.

Where do we leave a voice message?

obormottel wrote on 11 Nov 2011 16:59:


Sounds like the buckwheat may be getting to you.  Have no fear, a few good shots of some nice single malt scotch before each call and you'll be just fine.  Have a wonderful Shabbos.

Didn't Moshe Rabbeinu ask G-d to 'get somebody else' because he had an annoying 'Amenhotep twang'?

Here is quite a bit of an issue I am having. I was able to talk to a live person about it on Sunday night (without resorting to a half-dozen shots of scotch; though it WAS a great advice), and it helped greatly, but I feel I still need to get it out there.
My wife left town for a week! Ok, she had a good reason, it's work related, bla-bla-bla.
But I am now left alone to tend to our Bina bunch, and I am supposed wean the baby off nursing while she's away (what better opportunity!).
In the past, I'd be looking forward to her leave. I would put the kids to sleep and ...Pornfest, here I come.
The new newer me wants to prove I can handle responsibility. I also feel know that she deserves a break, it's good for her career, and she hasn't been out alone in centuries.
What I feel is a different story.
Number one, I feel very sorry for myself: How dare she leave me alone? Doesn't she know about my issues? Even with filtered computers, I can just go out and buy a DVD, or look up something innocuos, or just use stuff from my head to masturbate. I have never before in my life (no guzma) went to sleep by myself in the room, without masturbating.
When she's in the room, and I am on recovery program, is a different story. In the worst case scenario, she can "save" me from sinning. Thank G-d, I almost never resorted to that in my latest 100+ days sober, but you know how "pas b'saloi" makes you less hungry?
This situation means I have no "bread in my knapsack" for four days minimum, so I can't even take it one day at a time...
Secondly, I feel I got a short end of the stick. How is it fair that I am supposed not sleep all night convincing the baby (who's freaking out and screaming on top of her lungs) that she doesn't need [ triggering body part skipped ] and that she can do with a bottle? It's not fair!
Thirdly, I am working really hard on not harbouring resentment, but I am resentful to be sure. She's out there, having a good time, staying in a hotel, while I am tending to kids, going to work, and struggling with not having a melt-down and resorting to self-soothing.
So Sunday night I was shaking in my boots.
I called a guy, who talked to me for a long time (thank you!), and I davened non-stop:
To get through the night without acting out.
To get through the night without coming unglued because the baby is giving me a hard time.
To get through the night without the baby giving me a hard time.
It's been two nights, and I have not intentionally looked at anything, or touched myself, although I had to chase away fantasies (RBSO helped out a lot!).
It's been kinda sleepless, but not nearly as bad as I anticipated.
And I am talking to myself constantly trying to get rid of the resentment, so that when She comes back, I'll be genuinely happy for her having had a good trip, not bitter and resentful, and just wanting to take revenge by coming home late, or being nasty to her, or going out of town myself at the first opportunity, or my favorite form of revenge: masturbating to videos of naked people having devious sex.
Your advice, especially on resentment, is appreciated. 

Mottel, thanks for sharing so candidly, you are an inspiration.

you were given quite a challenge, and quite an opportunity.

reaching out to people and to the RBSO helps alot (as you've been doing).

about resentments, i struggle often with them too. sometimes telling the involved party in a calm way how you feel xy&z because of ab&c in a non-accusatory manner with the focus on how YOU feel (not how bad you feel THEY acted) can help clear the air. like telling your wife that while you're glad she is getting away and she totally deserves it at the same time you feel twinges of jealousy about holding down the fort and wish you could be there with her.

(and btw, now is a good time to gain an appreciation of what the wife does on a daily basis, juggling the kids the house the husband and the bingo ladies)

i will keep you in mind at davening bl'n.
wishing you the best
zs

Yes, I hear you about the resentment thing.  I would be resentful whenever my wife would go out with friends to any sort of function.  Even though she does so much for me and takes care of the kids etc and certainly deserves a break, somehow, that doesn't make me feel any better. 

I think it's because of the emptiness i feel in my own life.  Why does she have so many good friends etc?  I think the more we work on ourselves, (which we are finally doing) the more full we will be, and the less resentful.

That will happen over time.  For now, you just gotta do your best to try and be happy for her.  I know it's hard, trust me I know. 

Since getting some friends on GYE, I have definitely felt less resentful.  When my wife is out, I can call a friend and not have to focus on what she has that I don't.

I hope I have helped you in some way.

Hang in there buddy.

Thanks so very much!
That's what friends are for, I suppose: for sharing wisdom, or just a pat on the back.
I'll try and be happy for Her, then....
I can tell you that at least I'm thinking that resentment is not the right emotion for the situation. In the past, I would be sooooo putting her thru a guilt trip...

progress, baby steps...

You're on the right track, keep moving in the right direction.

If you need a push, we can call in the monster trucks  8).