Heiliger Me3, how are you doing?

Yosef, how did you get those stats?

It would be interesting to correlate that to the date each person signed up, then calculate "average hours per day on GYE". Then we can have a "Top10 GYE Addicts" list  ;D .

Gevura ShebYesod wrote on 28 Oct 2011 14:50:


www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?action=stats

bardichev wrote on 13 Aug 2009 16:16:


My problems are in the city, not in the country. Porn and chatting in the country, only met up with one person in the country.

Chanuka

We all know the story, or do we?

The Greeks worshipped beauty, feats of strength and physical prowess and of course pleasure. They were instituting their philosophies rather forcefully on the Jewish people and they were having a tremendous effect on the Jews. Many Jews started following their culture because it was very enticing. Matisyahu and his sons fought them and were able to repel the Greek armies miraculously and restored the purity of the Bais Hamikdash and the Jewish people.

There seems to be one piece missing from the story. I understand that the Jews defeated the Greeks in battle, but how did they convince the Jews to not follow the Greek culture?
I looked at the Rambam and this point really wasn't clear. All it says in that Hashem had mercy on the Jews and saved them.

Than I thought maybe there isn't anything more to say, maybe there isn't any other missing piece? For the people who were entrenched in Greek culture who were addicted to the pursuit of pleasure there was no way to fight it. BUT maybe they came to the realization that they were powerless to overcome this addiction, that only Hashem could restore them to sanity & they turned over their will and lives to Hashem. And as the Rambam says Hashem had mercy on them and saved them.

And just maybe the lessons of Chanuka have never been more applicable then they are now.

Wow, nice!

Hi friend! Nice vort - but how are you doing and what's new with you and yours?

Hi Dov

Thanks for asking about me. I'd love to say that things are great and I'm on a long clean streak but that wouldn't be true. Today, however, I'm doing well, and isn't that the only thing that counts?

Today is the only thing you and I have - but no, it's definitely not the only thing that counts.

Our limitations and abilities are not determined by the past - but they teach us something about these two vital things. Remembering our track records is a precious, precious gift from Hashem...if we know how to use it to help us. It's a pity to waste all that pain - it must teach us some truth about ourselves.

My experience teaches me that when I take that familiar chizzuk we hear: "Forget the past - it is irrelevant! Start anew!", we soon fall flat on our faces all over again. And that is easy to explain: Before real recovery begins, our main problem is fantasy - dimyon for sex and erotica that turns out to be destructive for us. Recovery is an escape from fantasy into a livable and great reality. So any fantasy is poison for a recovering person, period - even if it is a nice, 'Torahdikeh' fantasy!

We all know how poisonous the 'evil' fantasy is to us. The one that says that "I have porned myself to pieces so many times and masturbated, etc., etc. That means that I cannot live without it!" But that fantasy is just as poisonous as the one that says, "It's all over - it's in the past!"

There is a way to be free of the past, yet not pretend to ignore it. My past can help me make better choices today. I learn how to do that be"H, from fellow recovering sex addicts who use the 12 steps simply and honestly.

Thank you again Dov for your reply.

But I'm not sure what you are trying to tell me. My past is relevant inasmuch as it leads me to the determination that my past life and actions are intolerable. A determination that I thought I made yet although my actions may imply otherwise.

Other than that I don't see any positive in dwelling on the past. Is that ignoring it? Rabeinu Yonah advises a person to start fresh so that advice that you are discounting has real basis. I know you are going to respond to that, that his advise is for normal people not sick addicts. And maybe that is part of my problem that I more associate porn with sin than sickness. I don't know I'll give that some thought.

Thanks me3 for the nice vort.

Dov, thank you for articulating what I've been feeling the last few days
Dov


I think my main problem is not the p* & m* per se, but the fact that I have been living in a fantasy world for so many years (not that is was constant, sometimes more and sometimes less, but fantasy none the less.) Much of the time it was "kosher" fantasies, but living in our minds is only an escape mechanism from the pain (and JOY!) of living a real life.

Dear Me3,

Yes, there is no benefit at all to dwelling on the past and I do not advocate that, chaver. Learning from it and letting it go is what works for us, it seems. The people who I referred to who say, "Start fresh anew! So you acted out yesterday and every week before that, so? Hayad Hashem tiktzor?! Sheva yipol Tzadik v'kom! Just get up and keep walking forward!"...are not coming from Rabbeinu Yonah, at all. They are on fantasy land - and they misuse Torah-true ideas that they'd never in a million years apply to their (financial) businesses!

Learning from it and letting it go is not done in the heart just because we 'feel really guilty about it', or something. It takes real work. Twelve step groups have a tradition of addicts writing out their personal drinking or sexually acting out history in detail - and sharing it openly with another safe, recovering addict in order to make it real to themselves. Addicts need to learn self-honesty...it is not natural for us. We lie to ourselves most of the time when we end up acting out all over again after swearing off; we lie k'seider for years with g'neivas da'as to all around us by acting kosher when we are far from it; we lie by hiding behind usernames and never sharing the truth about our real acting out problems with anybody, calling it 'honesty' and 'recovery'. We need work in order to learn the precious skill of self-honesty. What better way than to start being open with other safe people who know all our little games - ie, addicts?

Pretending that Hashem will help us and take it away from us - even though we are taking no real actions to give it up, ourselves - is not frum, but just silly. I think you feel the same way and I am writing nothing you don't already know.

And for those who really need them, the rest of the steps are primarily tools for getting out of G-d's way more, and more. That's it.

Porn is certainly a sin. But we are not talking about porn here, are we? I thought we are talking about a man who chronically and progressively uses porn and sex with himself at great personal cost and risk. The need for porn is the problem he has, not the using of the porn itself. That devotion to sweet porn (it is very sweet) and the adventure of the fantasy and secret orgasms, is much more than sin. Once the habit has developed to that degree, seeing it as 'sin' is actually a way of greatly minimizing it! Sin is much, much less serious than addiction is.

And the people from the websites that try to get people scared of the way their flesh will be melt off their bodies in gehinom and children dying as infants, etc, etc...are actually doing a disservice for the addicts. For addiction is much worse. It destroys a persons sanity. And there is nothing really left when that is gone, but a frum looking shell of a perverted liar. I know that shell-game well, firsthand. Derech Eretz Kodmah laTorah. The sefer Sha'arei Kedusha and many others stress the idea that sanity and honesty are the root of all real avodah, before yir'as Shomayim means anything real.

So dwell on the past? No way, just as you wrote. But I wrote my past and still have it. And I share it whenever someone needs to see that it is possible for a regular person to live as badly screwed up a life as they have - and recover, living a life that is great and growing ever better. So c"v for me to forget about my sins and sickness now!

Finally, there is the story of the rich guy who dressed up in his poor clothes once a year to celebrate his se'udas hoda'ah that he became wealthy. Every time a recovering addict like me reveals his entire true acting-out history to a newcomer, he himself relives the pain and terror of his past for a few minutes. The relentless terror of "how long will it be till I mess up again?," and the guilt and shame of living a lie with everyone and knowing he will die one day with heavy and ugly secrets that the family and oilem know nothing about...is again made clear to him. And all the amazing gratitude he has to G-d is also made clear as day. For who could do this but Hashem Himself? No one. It's impossible for an addict to stay sober. We all know that.

So who would want to forget the past? WE are sober. We have nothing to be ashamed of in front of Hashem - we know that He was right down there in front of us all along while we were masturbating there in the bathroom, too. and waiting patiently for us to finally get the help He was busy arranging for us. I would never want to forget that Love.

Wow. I just read that twice, and I'll think I'll read it again in an hour or two, hopefully I'll really internalize it.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

What would we do without Dov?

He gives us a taste of the sanity we all wish we had

So the other day I went biking. Along the way, while I was going pretty fast I had to swerve around somebody going the other direction my bike went off the path and the side of my wheel caught the side of the pavement. I lost control of the bike and I knew I was going to fall. Because of the speed I was going it was going to be a nasty fall.

Suddenly just as I was about to go down, the wheels caught, the bike stabilized and I was back in control as if nothing had happened.

Lessons learned.

Just because you're about to fall or you started to fall it doesn't mean you have to go all the way. You can stop your fall and get back on track before you do yourself serious harm.

Even when you think you're in control, it's not you God is really carrying you the whole time. Sometimes you just need to almost fall to realize that.