Lots of good insights on this thread (lot of good friends too! )

A gutten Shabbos to Jack, Dov, and the entire Chevra!

and b'emes, it's a mefurashe ohr hachaim hakodesh near the beginning of parshas bechukosai.it is not about addiction, but it IS about something that we may perceve as 'BAD".he says that forgetfulness is a bracha.why? because if we forgot what we learned, we have to learn it again, and we thus spend more time learning, because of that 'BAD' thing we call forgetfulness.the point is that there is room to say that what we see as 'BAD', maybe really is 'GOOD'.eh?

jack

hey, kedusha, great hearing from you, it's been a long time.how ya doin? (my first stretch was only 6 1/2 months before i caved in).

jack wrote on 19 Oct 2012 17:52:



To clarify, my count (1,250 days, b'Ezras Hashem) refers to days without falls. However, slips often lead to falls, so my first line of defense has been (and continues to be) avoiding slips.

what a great accomplishment! and what great advice!
jack

when i first joined GYE about 4 years ago, i was amazed at what i saw.i saw talmidey chachamim, people who knew a lot of Torah, having trouble with this.(i thought i was the only religious jew in the world with this problem).so i realzed that the torah is not enough to stop an addiction.i think dov would agree with me on this.
NEVERTHELESS, i think a few things from our torah can be used as an aid in fighting this.first of all, there are people (myself included) who would do much worse things if not for the torah.2nd, we can use the torah way of teshuva as a MODEL for us.so, for starters, what is meant by 'naaseh vnishma'? it means first we willdo what the creator wants - without thinking.later, we can ask questions and analyze.for now, just do it because you are told that it is the right thing from someone you trust.at that time, the Jews trusted Hashem because of what He did for them.in recovery, the first stage HAS to be abstinence for NO REASON other than someone you trust told you not to act out.later, once we are sober, we can start analyzing, asking, etc.
dont forget, it says 'ayn kaylokeinu'.first, you have to know there is none like our G-d.then, and ONLY then can you ask the question 'mi kaylokeinu' - who is like our G-d.the statement comes first, then the question.
jack

I couldn't agree any more!

Onward!

dear chashuva fellow strugglers,
so, you might ask, if the jews said naaseh vnishma, why did the Creator find it necessary to force them to accept the torah by hanging a mountain over their heads? is there a stronger question than this?
the answer is the Creator of all things knew that even though the people WANTED to accept the Torah, there was something standing in the way - the yetzer hara.force takes away the yetzer hara and allows the true ratzon of the people to be expressed.like the husband who wont give the wife a get, we beat him until he says he accepts.why is this? the famous rambam says that he really wants to give the get, but the yetzer hara is standing in the way.so the beating removes the yetzer hara and allows his true ratzon to do the will of Hashem to emerge.
it is the same by us.we all want to do what Hashem wants, this is clear to me.but the strong magnet of the addiction is in the way.so we have to resort to extreme measures to make sure the power of the addiction does not get in the way of our ratzon.like filters, for example.or accountability software.or oaths.or anything that you can think of, that will, if only in a small way, will weaken the power of habit.it's still not easy, by any means.but, it's something more than we would have without it.
jack

what's keeping me clean TODAY is dov's advice:do i remember what it felt like last time i fell? do i remember the embrassment (to myself)? do i remember how bad it felt after the deed was done? and the answer is, today i remember, and i dont want to feel like that again.i cant afford to feel like that again.tomorrow? will i remember these feelings tomorrow? if i dont, i'm going to go into a meditative state and try to put myself back into that place, and try to remember.so i dont have to visit that place again.
so, thank you reb dov.
jack

Wow - you are welcome. Thanks go to all the addicts I know who keep acting out so that I can see them, remember, and not need to do as they chose to do today.

והנשארים ישמעו ויראו ולא יוסיפו לעשות עוד כדבר הרע הזה

well, what would we do if we DONT see addicts acting out to remind us of this important lesson?

also, i forgot kedusha, how can i forget r' kedusha, who showed me what mesiras nefesh is by traveling on a train for 3 hours JUST TO ATTEND ELYA'S MEETING? he says 'slips lead to falls, so i just try to avoid slips! elementary, no?

Did someone call my name? :D ;D

...well, that's one of the great benefits of in-person meetings and real relationships with other addicts. People flop - that's natural for us all. And when they do, they need us to be there for them, and we need to be there for ourselves. Seeing them and knowing that they are no more evil or undeserving than we are - yet they fall hard - reminds us on a visceral level that we are still broken, too, being held together by our loving Tatty when we let Him.

boy kedusha, you have great hearing.i'm about a 3 1/2 hour drive from where you are-

but b'emes, it's like i said before - THERE ARE NO REASONS THAT WORK.after being an addit for 45 years, there is NO REASON to make me stop.nothing is good enough. and therefore,i i have to stay clean for NO REASON at all.