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TOPIC: Humpty Dumpty 461 Views

Humpty Dumpty 22 Mar 2024 03:40 #410589

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Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.


First of all, What sort of name is Humpty Dumpty? Is Dumpty is his surname?- but then why does it get mentioned again in the second line?,and if not then why in the last line do we only call him Humpty? Then, the meforshim are masbir that he's an egg, what's the ufto in that? And why make a big deal about him sitting on a wall, he could have been sitting anywhere? Also, it says he "had a great fall" instead of just saying he fell. Why? Also, what's the havaa amina that the kings horses can help out? 

מוכח לכאורה all of this is actually a mashal for dealing with tough stuff in life, like addiction. The name being Humpty Dumpty is miloshon Humps and Bumps - ups and downs, we all go through ups and downs in life. Humpty Dumpty was a regular guy. The meforshim masbir that he was an egg to explain the nekuda of why davka a wall. Eggs don't sit on walls, that's a dangerous place for them. Sitting on that wall is like living life on the edge, taking risks when we maybe shouldn't. And when they say he "had a great fall," it's not just about tripping over; it knocked him out to the point of no return. "All the kings horses and men", horses refer to physical koach and men refer to intellectual strength. As long as it was the kings, not his own, he was hoping for someone else to do the work for him, nothing would help. That's about how sometimes, we try all sorts of ways to get better, but it's the inside work, the mental and spiritual stuff, that really does the trick. And that's pshat why at the end we only call him Humpty. He was too prideful to realize his own weaknesses, and only saw his Humpty part, couldn't take responsibility for his actions and his dumps, and therefore he is still there broken in pieces.

Avada all of you GYE's are the epitome of hard work and humbleness, acceptance and dedication, but we can take the lesson to heart and keep up our good work!!

May we all have an uplifting Purim!
Marbitz torah and communal askan in E Yisroel | 30's | Went to rehab | Avid SA'er
Not perfect yet, but a changed person 180 degrees
If you think you know who I am, and want to reach out for further chizzuk, I have nothing to hide in real life and would love to share my ESH with you
Last Edit: 22 Mar 2024 03:54 by parev.

Re: Humpty Dumpty 22 Mar 2024 11:17 #410597

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The assumption is that Humpty's pnimiyus was raw. Had he been cooked, maybe he could have been salvaged and repaired....  Also king's horses and men don't think out of the box. The royal chacham would have had him scrambled and fried....  
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

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Re: Humpty Dumpty 22 Mar 2024 12:43 #410599

Moiredig! do you have pshat for incy wincy spider?
I'm sure thats been bothering the oilom for a long time...

Re: Humpty Dumpty 22 Mar 2024 12:58 #410600

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Takke it bothered me for a while.
I asked my Rosh Yeshiva for the oilam and here is his reply:
Parev:
incy wincy spider pleaseChatGPT

"Incy Wincy Spider" (also known as "Itsy Bitsy Spider") is a popular nursery rhyme and fingerplay that describes the adventures of a small spider. The rhyme is usually accompanied by a sequence of gestures that mimic the spider's movements. Here are the lyrics:

Incy Wincy Spider climbed up the water spout. Down came the rain, and washed the spider out. Out came the sunshine, and dried up all the rain, And Incy Wincy Spider climbed up the spout again.

This delightful rhyme teaches children about perseverance and the benefits of trying again despite setbacks, all through the simple and engaging story of a spider's efforts to climb up a water spout.
Parev: 
whats the nimshal

ChatGPT

The nimshal, or moral lesson, of the "Incy Wincy Spider" nursery rhyme can be seen as a message of resilience and determination. Despite facing obstacles and setbacks, represented by the rain washing the spider down the water spout, Incy Wincy doesn't give up. When the situation improves, with the sun coming out and drying up all the rain, the spider tries again and succeeds in climbing up the spout.

This simple yet powerful narrative teaches children (and reminds adults) about the importance of persistence. Life can bring challenges and difficulties, akin to the rain in the rhyme, but with patience, perseverance, and a positive outlook, symbolized by the sunshine, overcoming these challenges is possible. The spider's repeated attempts and eventual success serve as an encouragement to keep trying, no matter how many times we may be knocked down. It's a timeless lesson about the value of resilience and the power of an indomitable spirit.

Parev:
whats the double lashon incy wincy. also what was he trying to get in the spout
ChatGPT

The double lashon (phrase) "Incy Wincy" in the nursery rhyme "Incy Wincy Spider" serves a few purposes, enhancing the rhyme in both a phonetic and thematic manner:


  1. Phonetic Appeal: The repetition and rhythm created by the phrase "Incy Wincy" make the rhyme catchy and memorable, especially for children. The use of alliteration and the playful sounds help engage young listeners and make the song more enjoyable to sing and hear.

  2. Characterization: The descriptive nature of "Incy Wincy" adds to the characterization of the spider. It suggests something small and perhaps delicate, enhancing the narrative of the spider's challenge and journey. The phrase gives personality to the spider, making it a more relatable and sympathetic character.


Regarding the spider's goal in climbing the water spout, the nursery rhyme doesn't explicitly state why Incy Wincy is making the climb. The action can be seen as a metaphor for striving toward a goal or overcoming obstacles. The water spout, a challenging and seemingly insurmountable obstacle, represents the trials and tribulations one might face in life. Incy Wincy's determination to climb the spout, despite being washed away by the rain and then trying again when the sun comes out, embodies the spirit of perseverance and resilience. In a broader interpretation, the spider's journey can inspire listeners to keep striving towards their goals, no matter the setbacks they encounter.
Marbitz torah and communal askan in E Yisroel | 30's | Went to rehab | Avid SA'er
Not perfect yet, but a changed person 180 degrees
If you think you know who I am, and want to reach out for further chizzuk, I have nothing to hide in real life and would love to share my ESH with you

Re: Humpty Dumpty 22 Mar 2024 13:41 #410602

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neshomo kedosha wrote on 22 Mar 2024 12:43:
Moiredig! do you have pshat for incy wincy spider?
I'm sure thats been bothering the oilom for a long time...

First of all "neshomo kedosha" , welcome to the GYE forum!

Here are some insights for the "incy wincy spider" 

It is part of life to get washed out by a rain of problems. But despite what affects your life, the best alternative is to move on and hope for a better tomorrow.

Spider lessons

If I lived a past life as a spider, I don’t remember it. This means I have no way of knowing if a spider feels anger, remorse, or becomes depressed when the rain washes him/her out. I don’t know if they complain to friends or blame Hashem for what happened to them. Whatever it is they do, the first chance the spider gets he/she is out there rebuilding a web.

 Lesson 1: The sun comes up tomorrow

Whether prince or pauper, you cannot avoid the rain from coming down. You will fail and face pain and loss. This is part of the birth/death/rebirth cycles of life. The spider knows, when the rain comes, he/she will have to let go of what he/she built and take refuge until it is safe to come out again

 Lesson 2: Anything is possible when you commit to living one step at a time

There is no “save” button in life. When you experience a fall or a life chapter ending, the new beginning will not require you to start from scratch. Like the spider, you don’t start from zero, you have a greater foundation of knowledge from which to start that you gained from your experiences This can help you eliminate faulty alternatives and pursue ones that will work. Rebuilding out of the ashes of the old will require you to take one step at a time, but you will accomplish things you never thought were within your reach.

Lesson 3: We have more than one masterpiece in us

As you reflect on your life, the changes you experienced—no matter how painful they were at the time—were for your benefit. They made you better, stronger, resilient, more spiritual, open to new ideas and beliefs. They opened the door to greater ways of being. You can create a wonderful new life after every ending.


Ups and downs, Beginnings and endings are part of life.  Learn from the spider, start anew, a masterpiece awaits you.
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?"
feel free to reach out @  ahavayirah@gmail.com
Last Edit: 22 Mar 2024 13:42 by davidt.

Re: Humpty Dumpty 22 Mar 2024 13:51 #410604

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Or maybe it is a lesson that the yetzer hara (the spider) never gives up, so don't lose your equilibrium when he keeps on returning.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: Humpty Dumpty 22 Mar 2024 14:04 #410607

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parev wrote on 22 Mar 2024 12:58:
Takke it bothered me for a while.
I asked my Rosh Yeshiva for the oilam and here is his reply:
Parev:
incy wincy spider pleaseChatGPT

"Incy Wincy Spider" (also known as "Itsy Bitsy Spider") is a popular nursery rhyme and fingerplay that describes the adventures of a small spider. The rhyme is usually accompanied by a sequence of gestures that mimic the spider's movements. Here are the lyrics:

Incy Wincy Spider climbed up the water spout. Down came the rain, and washed the spider out. Out came the sunshine, and dried up all the rain, And Incy Wincy Spider climbed up the spout again.

This delightful rhyme teaches children about perseverance and the benefits of trying again despite setbacks, all through the simple and engaging story of a spider's efforts to climb up a water spout.
Parev: 
whats the nimshal

ChatGPT

The nimshal, or moral lesson, of the "Incy Wincy Spider" nursery rhyme can be seen as a message of resilience and determination. Despite facing obstacles and setbacks, represented by the rain washing the spider down the water spout, Incy Wincy doesn't give up. When the situation improves, with the sun coming out and drying up all the rain, the spider tries again and succeeds in climbing up the spout.

This simple yet powerful narrative teaches children (and reminds adults) about the importance of persistence. Life can bring challenges and difficulties, akin to the rain in the rhyme, but with patience, perseverance, and a positive outlook, symbolized by the sunshine, overcoming these challenges is possible. The spider's repeated attempts and eventual success serve as an encouragement to keep trying, no matter how many times we may be knocked down. It's a timeless lesson about the value of resilience and the power of an indomitable spirit.

Parev:
whats the double lashon incy wincy. also what was he trying to get in the spout
ChatGPT

The double lashon (phrase) "Incy Wincy" in the nursery rhyme "Incy Wincy Spider" serves a few purposes, enhancing the rhyme in both a phonetic and thematic manner:


  1. Phonetic Appeal: The repetition and rhythm created by the phrase "Incy Wincy" make the rhyme catchy and memorable, especially for children. The use of alliteration and the playful sounds help engage young listeners and make the song more enjoyable to sing and hear.

  2. Characterization: The descriptive nature of "Incy Wincy" adds to the characterization of the spider. It suggests something small and perhaps delicate, enhancing the narrative of the spider's challenge and journey. The phrase gives personality to the spider, making it a more relatable and sympathetic character.


Regarding the spider's goal in climbing the water spout, the nursery rhyme doesn't explicitly state why Incy Wincy is making the climb. The action can be seen as a metaphor for striving toward a goal or overcoming obstacles. The water spout, a challenging and seemingly insurmountable obstacle, represents the trials and tribulations one might face in life. Incy Wincy's determination to climb the spout, despite being washed away by the rain and then trying again when the sun comes out, embodies the spirit of perseverance and resilience. In a broader interpretation, the spider's journey can inspire listeners to keep striving towards their goals, no matter the setbacks they encounter.


I always had an entirely different approach to this one. 
The נוסח that I grew up with had the poem ending with “and the incy wincy spider climbed up the spout again. And higher, and Higher, and HIGHER, and OOOF- he fell down again!”  
לפי this נוסח, it is my belief that this poem is a משל for trying the same thing over and over again, hoping for different results, and being disappointed when the results are repeated. 
The נמשל is, in my eyes, is quite obvious.
“Verbing weirds language”
-Calvin. 
“Getting an inch of snow is like winning ten cents in the lottery”
-also Calvin.
“The most important thing is sincerity. Once you can fake that, the rest is easy.”
-Groucho Marks.
“Pornography is a bad answer to a good question”
-R’ Daniel Kalish
“True bitachon means accepting all inconveniences; not just the convenient inconveniences.”
-Rabbi Dovid Kaplan.
Last Edit: 22 Mar 2024 14:04 by tzitzis dude.

Re: Humpty Dumpty 22 Mar 2024 14:10 #410608

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And what about Curious George? How is this monster a common part of child rearing?
I mean, just think about it. You have this monkey that is constantly getting into trouble, messing up, going against explicit instructions, causing extreme monetary loss, but in the end, everything “somehow” works out. THIS IS NOT HOW REAL LIFE WORKS. Actions have consequences. People get hurt. Money gets lost. 
#GeorgeIsקרום
#BanCuriousGeorge.
“Verbing weirds language”
-Calvin. 
“Getting an inch of snow is like winning ten cents in the lottery”
-also Calvin.
“The most important thing is sincerity. Once you can fake that, the rest is easy.”
-Groucho Marks.
“Pornography is a bad answer to a good question”
-R’ Daniel Kalish
“True bitachon means accepting all inconveniences; not just the convenient inconveniences.”
-Rabbi Dovid Kaplan.
Last Edit: 22 Mar 2024 14:14 by tzitzis dude.

Re: Humpty Dumpty 22 Mar 2024 14:31 #410611

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Hashem Help Me wrote on 22 Mar 2024 13:51:
Or maybe it is a lesson that the yetzer hara (the spider) never gives up, so don't lose your equilibrium when he keeps on returning.

  בתהלים קי"ט, מאויבי תחכמני מצותיך כי לעולם הוא לי. דלכאורה יש להבין למה נאמר הוא לי, לשון יחיד ולא אמר לשון רבים המה לי, דלפי פשוטו קאי על המצות דהמה רבים. וביארנו, דכשחס ושלום בא איזה מחשבה ותאוה רעה לאדם יתגבר יצר הטוב על יצר הרע דיאמר בלבו קל וחומר אם היצר הרע מסית לדבר הפסד נבזה ושפל דכל התאות הם דברים נפסדים אין בהם ממש וקיום כמו תאות ממון וניאוף שהכל הבל וריק שאחר כך יתמרמר לב האדם בקרבו על מה עשה ככה להפסיד עולם הנצחי בשביל חיי שעה ותאוה זמניית
. זהו שאמר הכתוב מאויבי תחכמני מצותיך, פירוש מיצר הרע שהוא אויבי שאין לך אויב כיצר הרע שמסית לעבירה. תחכמני מצותיך, מאתו אני מחכים עצמי למצותיך בקל וחומר הנ"ל, ומה אם הוא מסית אותי לעבירה שהוא דבר הפסד כנ"ל. מכל שכן שראוי לי לעבוד ה' שמעבודתו אני מתענג בתענוג עולם כנ"ל. זהו כי לעולם היא לי, פירוש שזה התענוג שיש לי בעבודת ה' היא לעולם. 
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?"
feel free to reach out @  ahavayirah@gmail.com

Re: Humpty Dumpty 22 Mar 2024 14:49 #410613

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Pretty sure this belongs here
cordnoy wrote on 16 Jun 2023 16:36:
Philosophizin' beats workin' any day of the week!
May you slide down the banister of happiness and get many splinters of success up your career

Feel free to send me an owl, a howler, or even a Crumple-Horned Snorkack to Iamredfaced@gmail.com


The Red Face
Last Edit: 22 Mar 2024 14:49 by redfaced.

Re: Humpty Dumpty 22 Mar 2024 15:04 #410614

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tzitzis dude wrote on 22 Mar 2024 14:10:
And what about Curious George? How is this monster a common part of child rearing?
I mean, just think about it. You have this monkey that is constantly getting into trouble, messing up, going against explicit instructions, causing extreme monetary loss, but in the end, everything “somehow” works out. THIS IS NOT HOW REAL LIFE WORKS. Actions have consequences. People get hurt. Money gets lost. 
#GeorgeIsקרום
#BanCuriousGeorge.

R' Rabbi Shimshon Dovid Pincus Z"L spoke about the damaging affects of reading non-jewish children books that are full of messages and lessons opposite of torah values. For example: "goldilocks and the three bears" 
The name Goldilocks = everything is about the external looks of the person (She was named "Goldilocks" because golden hair ran down her head and shoulders.) 
Moral reasoning in the story focuses on self concern and everything must be just perfect.  (She moved to the second bowl and took a sip.  “Ah!” she said, “it is too cold.” She moved to the third bowl and took a sip.  “This is just right!” Before she knew it, the oatmeal was all gone.)
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?"
feel free to reach out @  ahavayirah@gmail.com

Re: Humpty Dumpty 22 Mar 2024 15:06 #410616

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tzitzis dude wrote on 22 Mar 2024 14:10:
And what about Curious George? How is this monster a common part of child rearing?
I mean, just think about it. You have this monkey that is constantly getting into trouble, messing up, going against explicit instructions, causing extreme monetary loss, but in the end, everything “somehow” works out. THIS IS NOT HOW REAL LIFE WORKS. Actions have consequences. People get hurt. Money gets lost. 
#GeorgeIsקרום
#BanCuriousGeorge.

All bans belong in The Grouchery - NO-ONE CARES!!!!
May you slide down the banister of happiness and get many splinters of success up your career

Feel free to send me an owl, a howler, or even a Crumple-Horned Snorkack to Iamredfaced@gmail.com


The Red Face

Re: Humpty Dumpty 22 Mar 2024 15:08 #410617

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The Bernstein bears?
You can win the fight, but I'll have to live with the loser.

Any excuse you use for yourself, you must be willing to use for your wife.

Not Always can I understand others, but I can always respect their wishes.

You're human, it's okay.

One half of the world cannot understand the pleasures of the other.

Re: Humpty Dumpty 22 Mar 2024 15:13 #410618

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Heeling wrote on 22 Mar 2024 15:08:

The Bernstein bears?


Ban them!
BAN THEM ALL!!!!!
“Verbing weirds language”
-Calvin. 
“Getting an inch of snow is like winning ten cents in the lottery”
-also Calvin.
“The most important thing is sincerity. Once you can fake that, the rest is easy.”
-Groucho Marks.
“Pornography is a bad answer to a good question”
-R’ Daniel Kalish
“True bitachon means accepting all inconveniences; not just the convenient inconveniences.”
-Rabbi Dovid Kaplan.

Re: Humpty Dumpty 22 Mar 2024 17:02 #410620

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Rav Aharon Feldman from Ner Yisroel in Baltimore has spoken about the very bad midos that many nursery rhymes subtly teach. It's not a question of banning them. Just ask yourself what chinuch influence you would like your innocent kinderlach to have.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE
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