Maybe he can create a username that you don't know is his? Perhaps he can have 2 usernames: 1 that you know and one that you don't know.

YVY

Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 10 Feb 2011 19:24:

Who posts the exact nature of what they do when we act out here on the forum, anyway? If he really wants to get better, then let him do whatever he thinks he needs to do and find somebody with whom he can be 100% specific without blowing his cover.

AA: Bill wrote something like "With all the earnestness at our command, we beg you to be fearless and thoroughly honest from the very start." - from the first page or so of the beautiful Ch 5. Anyway, that's my hope for this guy, whatever derech he chooses to try today.

Yivorech'cha Hashem v'yishmerecho!

dov wrote on 26 Jan 2011 05:08:


I am confused, your real name may be Dov. You may have identified yourself to people out there, but your are certainly keeping your identity quite hidden on this forum (as is R' Guard for that matter)

I agree with YVY. Let him create a username that even you don't know, or have 2 usernames to go with.

As far as revealing your identity, I still believe that is a personal question. If someone has come to terms with who he is, acknowledges his problems, AND IS COMFORTABLE WITH HIS CURRENT STATION IN LIFE AND HIS PROGRESS AND GROWTH, so why should he be scared for others to know what he's been through and how far he's come? I would be proud of that!
On the other hand, if someone is still trying to find himself, is uncertain about his own self worth, and is self conscious, then revealing himself will likely cause him to give up on himself which is the worst thing ever!!
Each person has to do what he can to help himself get over this. For some it's one way. For others it's another. As you see from the poll results so far, there is no 1 correct answer!!!

Hey can't u see my hand up???  I know Dov!!!  He's a great guy.  As wacky and wonderful in person as he is here on the forum.  Understandably he doesn't put his last name here so it doesn't come up on Google searches but he is being totally open as one could ever expect.  If he was using a screen name I wouldn't know who he is on GYE even though I know him in person.

I know Dov too!

I do too!

And he is a great guy, though not as humble as Guard is.

OK, Kosher, what would you like to know about me?

But really, I must admit to you that the reason i do not share more intimate and potentially identifying details about myself here on the forum is because I do not consider this forum a venue for my own recovery and do not favor it as such for others, either.

Yup, I said it. 

The forum is virtual. While that gufa provides people with a buffer so they can at least open their mouths to someone, at the same time, it is a huge weakness for reality - we can put on virtual faces (and do). Reality - the stuff that affects us on an emotional level, has been the big difference foe me and many others I who know. The porn makes our hands shake, breathing shallow, and heart race....and so does coming to your first 12-step recovery meeting, SA international conference, or shabbatons for frum, recovering sexaholics and their families. The real thing feels real. The weakness of the forum is that I doubt many here have ever had nearly the phisical reaction while posting something as they did while they were struggling with acting out their lust. So how can it possibly be as real?

Hey, for many of the young fellows on this forum, virtual faces is exactly how they have been acting out all along! Staying virtual is a good thing then? I think not.

And nothing will change that, it seems. And yet that makes the forum and GYE perfect for exactly what it is, as far as I am concerned:

The perfect gateway into recovery for many suffering yidden and their families. So far, I have met (and keep in regular contact with) about 10 guys who have been introduced to in-person recovery groups as a result of their contact with GYE people, and are doing very well, thank-G-d. That is a huge number, really. Huge.

We need to all keep on working together, because we all have a lot more to do for klal Yisroel!

So do you want me to post a picture of myself on the forum? Why? Will it help my recovery?

I'd like to add something. I feel a huge amount of gratitude to this forum, and I actually do feel that being part of it has helped my recovery tremendously. However, it was not the only thing that helped, and if it would have been the only thing, I'm not sure if I would still be clean. Or married.

I went to a great therapist, and i also had a rebbe and friend who helped me out. Having a good support system, of whatever kind, is very important.

I don't think there is any denying that Dov is Be'etzem correct. If a person has a heart condition and he develops an extensive network of support groups for people suffering with heart disease they will not improve their condition. It's clear and obvious that these people need medical attention, not just support. Now, if the doctor prescribes a difficult exercise regiment and strict diet, then they may need a support group to help them follow the doctors instructions.
However that all depends on the extent of the condition. For others they may be at a very early stage and the doctor may tell them that all they have to do is watch their food intake, and exercise here and there and the condition will correct itself. For those guys, all they really need is a good support group to make sure they are on top of the situation.
I feel the same way about GYE. There are many different levels of addiction. Dov describes his in previous posts as being very severe. For Dov the support was not enough, but it may have helped once he was taking more severe action. But there are others suffering from much earlier stages of the disease. For them, the wall of honor, 90 days, handbooks, and support from the forum may be just what they needed. I believe it is very subjective.
As an important side note. The greatest difficulty lies in properly diagnosing yourself. If you've tried everything but GYE, and feel your addiction is not so bad and this can work on its own, Go For IT!!! But don't be foolish. If you try and fall, try and fall, over and over and over again - even with GYE - Do yourself a favor and get the help that you need!!! Don't keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. (ie: Don't be insane!!!)
May Hashem guide us all to the path that is best for us!!!

Wow. Reb Yid (and i really mean "Reb Yid" this time! ;D), that was spot on. Agreed 100% and thanks for the clear-headed post. I really do believe that some things may have been easier for me would there have been a place like GYE to go to for support while I was starting out in SA.

So here is another rant (thanks for the inspiration :o):

I my case, it became very clear that my addiction/obsession was not a purely moral/religious one, but I fear that many frum yidden harbor a powerful romantic obsession with "busting the YH's behind in a show of true yir'as Shomayim". Nu. Good luck to them.

Unfortunately, if they find they are - as you describe so well - losing the 'fight'...in comes a cadre of well-meaning (and equally romantically obsessed) fellows to the 'rescue'! They say over and over that "of course we hope you do not sin any more, but even if you still do, in the final analysis it is your struggle is what Hashem wants and loves!"

Well, I see this as a misapplied basic Torah concept. Like many, sometimes essential - sometimes deadly.

In many cases it is simply untrue, but in the case of a married addict who is 'falling' this advice may be cruelly ignorant of the lies and betrayal the innocent wife must ignorantly suffer.  And in the end, it destroys marriages completely, ruining the lives of the children, G-d forbid.

And a caveat that adds a bit to explain where I am coming from:

I have met and gotten close to dozens of GYE guys so far, b"H. In most cases, the poor fellow had been posting all along about "a problem with schmutz on the internet and hz"l..." - but that's only half the story. In reality what was going on was a frequent or constant obsession with a particular woman or women, with particular types of schmutz or  behaviors, or habitual acting out other more outlandish behaviors than 'garden variety' porn use for a few minutes here and there. But they do not dare share any of this on the forum either because it'd be triggering to others, because doing so is just plain inappropriate for a public forum, or because they are just too scared to admit it to anybody.  I understand all these reasons and have been there.

These are real people. Their behavior affects real people. As bochurim, we are like little islands - 'experiments' in mussar and yir'as Shomayim. But eventually the game is over. It's our real life, nothing less. And if the guy (or gal) is married, it always affects their families. And we know of many cases where it got into the news, too, which affects Klal Yisroel.

Ooh...touched a nerve there - the religiously obsessed see that as reaching a new level. A chillul Hashem! "The guy is really sick and should have gotten real help before it was too late," they say.

Well, I am concerned about the wives and children and feel it is worth stepping on some peoples' religious sensibilities for the sake of helping real people get the help they really need. True - the 12 step program is not for everyone - not even for every addict. True - there are religious answers for all these things that may work for some people (just see the hakdomah of "Da es atzmecha" in English from rav Itamar Schwartz of "Bilvavi" for more on that). And true - I am just another bozo on this bus with all of you and know very, very little about anything and am no expert and may be wrong about 90% (or more) of what i think. But I need to try do what Hashem wants, which is to do the best I can with my own sechel and experience to help others.

Whoo. It's late! Sorry to anybody who read this and fell asleep. Try it on Purim and be yotzei drinking according to the Ram"o next time! ;D :-*

Bozo on the bus

Hahahaha


U got a good laff out of me

Dov

I hear u loud and clear

For all those out there who fell asleep reading Dov's last post - Ashrecha. I'm the bozo who's still up!!

But seriously, Dov is right once again. It is all too common in our world that people tend to isolate their problems. "It's my problem, and I am dealing with it at my own pace. Don't push me. Don't rush me. And if it's bothering you? Well then that's your problem!!!!"  Sound like anyone you know? Sound like yourself sometimes? As a Rebbe, this is an attitude that I find by parents all the time. Their son is disturbing, bothering, hurting, or otherwise destroying the class, and they want to know why I keep sending him out/home. I explain to them that I am working on many different things to try to help him behave, and keep him in the room where he belongs, BUT THERE ARE 20+ OTHER CHILDREN IN THE CLASS WHO WANT TO LEARN, AND I DON'T HAVE THE LUXURY OR ABILITY TO SACRIFICE ALL OF THEM FOR YOUR SON!! Being patient is a wonderful thing. But not if your patience can and will hurt those around you - especially if it will hurt them in a significant way.
One of my Rebeiim (who doesn't know about my problem) has been known to advise couples in which one partner is dealing with a significant problem to separate from each other until the problem is under control. Not necessarily fixed, but at least under control. He feels that this: 1- forces the person to take his/her problem very seriosly, and do what is necessary to correct it. And 2 - minimize the strain of the ups and downs of fighting through a problem, and the residual effect and damage it can cause to the relationship.

Obviously, every case is different. I am not here to say that this should be common protocol, nor was this Rebbe saying that. Each case must be weighed very carefully to know what is right for that specific case. But it is the concept that I think is important to bring out. It is selfish and arrogant for anybody to think that others need to be patient while you fix yourself. If you are doing everything in your power to deal with it asap, then of course a certain measure of patience is warranted. But if you could be doing more - and should be doing more - aside for the damage you may be doing to yourself, there will be a very severe Din awaiting you in Shamayim for unnecessarily causing pain and suffering to those closest to you.

So my fellow sufferers: Please keep in mind that for us here at GYE, it may be our addiction, but it is NOT exclusively our problem. Keep that in mind when deciding how best to attack your challenges.
May we all be Zoche to beat this addiction to oblivion, in whatever way is necessary.

PS - DOV - I LOVE to rant, so you have found a very willing "ranter"!!!
Knock Yourself Out!! :D ;D

dov wrote on 13 Feb 2011 04:22:


I hear what you're saying, but l'maaseh can't that be remedied by opening up in private to select members. No?

ben durdayah wrote on 13 Feb 2011 11:48:
Yes. Actually, what other option is there? The only problem is that in this virtual world how do you know that the person (or people) you are opening up to will have any schoirah at all for you beyond sympathy? True, love is very important - perhaps the most important ingredient in recovery. But it is so easy for a person who has never gotten any time away from his own problem to spew tons of well-intended advice to every other person in the universe. There is no evidence that any of it is 'battle-tested' for you cannot see the look on his face and do not know this person, at all. All you've got is a kitsch username and very nice sounding words!

Nu. Support and encouragement it certainly is. But anybody who R"l has cancer and wants a support group goes to real cancer survivors. Not a group of folks who just read some books written by cancer survivors and felt very sympathetic to the problem.

We all share a precious thing here on GYE: we are all people drawn together by different expressions of the exact same obsession: lust. I am only really interested in sharing what is actually working for me to keep my zipper up or my eyes closed. That's the only schoirah for me here.

Thanks for the chizzuk, though!! :o

Back to the discussion of to what extent we should reveal our identities.

Personally I hate anonymity. The only that has held me back from posting my name, address, (social security #, DOB), etc. has been that I don't think my employer or family would be too happy about it, so for their sake I have not.

However, I have wondered, why hasn't R' Guard revealed his identity? He has not (at least anywhere that I am aware of) even claimed to have any past failings (he told the JP that a relative's problem got him involved).
I wonder if perhaps those of us who are willing to be open about who we are and our past failings have that mindset, because to some extent we are stilling living with our past rationalizations. Even though we may no longer be behaving inapropriately, we have not come to full terms with the severity of our past behavior and if we truly were out of our past mindset/justification and realized how bad we had behaved, perhaps we would not be so fast to allow people to know who we are and what we did.

Just a thought...