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Physical Addiction and Averah Goreres Averah
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TOPIC: Physical Addiction and Averah Goreres Averah 1712 Views

Physical Addiction and Averah Goreres Averah 27 Feb 2011 02:37 #98628

  • nederman
There is a physical addiction. This can be removed by any means, as long as one stops the behavior. For example one way might be to have a shomer when you sleep.

After this is taken care of you can fight the problem by realizing that the averah is just a consequence of lude thoughts. If you do tshuva for each thought then the arousal stops, and even reverses. You can go on years like this. It's a big pain, but it works.
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Re: Physical Addiction and Averah Goreres Averah 27 Feb 2011 12:31 #98647

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Pardon me. I love you. I respect you as a person and as a yid.

But this shomer-at-night suggestion is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.

Surely you are a very choshuver person, nonetheless. Hashem is deeply in love with you.

If you are still reading, then please consider this:

I am an addict in recovery. In other words, I am a frum yid, a ben-Torah, who is zoche to be a recovering sex pervert. I used porn for over 15 years, masturbated, followed pretty women around in supermarkets and made progressively more contact with these 'lust objects' as the years went on. I became sicker and sicker, while getting holier and holier in my own mind. Until I had to stop - but I clearly couldn't. I had a good marriage, a job, kids, and of course, the Ribono shel Olam...all are road-kill before my insatiable desire (lust) in addiction. 

It is plain that you are focused purely on 'the aveiro' of masturbation in your sleep. This is of course not an addiction, at all. Mazel tov to you that you have come to see that your problem has a physical, bodily component. Ashrecha. But that is clearly only part of it - and the smallest part, actually.

The 'addiction', in my opinion, is to the deadly and destructive - but still sweet and comforting - lust thoughts and fantasy derived by histaklus that we tend to engage in during the day combined with our long-term memory. It is the wishing to be sexual and have those pleasures that is our problem. It is an obsession of the mind that makes us so sick.

Not ejaculating in bed, my friend. That is an unfortunate symptom and symbol of our own attachment to and need for dirty stimulation as sick people who are in denial of our problem.

And that can take years and years. Unfortunately, going to bed with a shomer to watch me for sexual stimulation is a great way to focus me on struggling with my sexual fantasies and their symptoms - not what Hashem wants - getting another yid focused on my sexual lust fantasy problems - not what Hashem wants, and just plain nutty - not what Hashem wants.

Who says that nuttiness is fine, as long as it is l'Shem Shomayim?

May Hashem help me recognize that the reason I am sober today is because I allow Him to assist me by my being honest and accepting of the truth. And may I remember today that staying honest and accepting of the truth (they call it "surrender" in AA and SA) takes a little daily work.

True, there is a physical part of this - but it is not during the night - it is during the day, when I feel I desperately need to look at and swim in fantasy or I'll die. That is the only problem here.

I have not had a wet dream in over 15 years, thank-G-d. And surely that is something I thank Hashem for. It is a matnas chinom. But that is not the ikkar - not even close.

The ikkar - and my only real business - is that He has been helping me become concerned with more important things like living with Him and enjoying Him, and really living with and enjoying my wife, my kids, my friends, and the life He is giving me right now - so that I do not need to lust like I used to. That is recovery through the 12 steps has given me and it is what the Shulchan aruch paskens we need to do: to live and do everything l'Shem Shomayim. I am surely not there fully yet - but at least I have a negiyah in it now, because my life is no longer all about me and my taharah, me and my avodah, me and my kedushas habris, me , me, me, and always more me. I have a shtik'l of the third step now, be"H. He is my Employer. I take care of His business fairly and He takes care of mine beautifully.

Recovery is not just stopping masturbation or orgasm. Stopping is just a symbol of recovery on the inside. But we cannot recover while feeding the addiction. So we need His help (in my case through joining with other recovering people) to quit one day at a time.

I pity the person who thinks as long as he is tahor today, his job is done.

Do you get my drift, chaver?

"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: Physical Addiction and Averah Goreres Averah 27 Feb 2011 16:37 #98661

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Doesn't the Shomer need to sleep too?
Just as an alcoholic needs to avoid that first sip, a lust addict needs to avoid that first slip.Slip today? No way! ;)Fall today? No way, Jose'!
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Re: Physical Addiction and Averah Goreres Averah 27 Feb 2011 16:50 #98667

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How can you sleep while you are watching closely and carefully for hours and hours to make sure that some poor sleeping fellow is not getting 'exciting'?

I think I'm gonna be sick.
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: Physical Addiction and Averah Goreres Averah 27 Feb 2011 20:51 #98717

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It doesn't sound like any person would agree to do that.  Why not reach out to the Shomer Yisrael?
Just as an alcoholic needs to avoid that first sip, a lust addict needs to avoid that first slip.Slip today? No way! ;)Fall today? No way, Jose'!
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Re: Physical Addiction and Averah Goreres Averah 27 Feb 2011 21:05 #98720

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I imagine He doesn't want to spend all night staring at anyone's privates, either.
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: Physical Addiction and Averah Goreres Averah 27 Feb 2011 21:50 #98728

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I imagine you know the gemora about why Bilaam was called "shesoom Hayin".
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Re: Physical Addiction and Averah Goreres Averah 27 Feb 2011 21:56 #98729

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You are funny, you know that?

Shazoom!
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: Physical Addiction and Averah Goreres Averah 01 Mar 2011 06:17 #98971

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"MP" will be on their red armbands, and a daled amos laser on their hats. And they will all be 'leSheim Shomayim'!

Anyone here remember that one?  ;D

May the Schwartz be with you, friends. 
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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