Read once, then minimize to save screen space.

Forum Overview

Post on the forum to get support, tell your story and reach out for help when feeling weak!

You will never be alone in this struggle again.

The GYE forum is anonymous platform of group support, and a life-line of chizuk for hundreds of people in exactly your situation. 

To use the forum you need to first become a member of the site, sign up here.

After signing up to the site, go to the forum, enter one of our boards and press "New Topic" to begin posting! 

Welcome, Guest

bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY!
(0 viewing) 
If you've made progress - thank G-d, double your merit by inspiring others as well! Post the tips and advice that worked best for you in your journey to sobriety or tell us about recommendations you heard from others that work.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 1212 Views

Re: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 17 Jun 2020 05:53 #351375

  • wilnevergiveup
  • Current streak: 180 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 790
  • Karma: 58

I dont think that the recorded message by voldemort (there! i said his name!)


Maybe voldemort is a little bit of a stretch?

Perhaps Snape?

Btw I think this thread brought out a lot of good points. I think, once again that HHM made all the relevant points. Thanks HHM well said.
Check out My thread  and The Truth

Daily Dose of Clarity

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com
Last Edit: 17 Jun 2020 06:00 by wilnevergiveup.

Re: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 17 Jun 2020 11:34 #351386

  • the.guard
  • Current streak: 487 days
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 6411
  • Karma: 133
sleepy wrote on 17 Jun 2020 05:03:
i was wondering(due to highers nice description of him) who is this chashuve  guy who made that audio, i still dont know.

He's referring to this audio share by Dov:
https://guardyoureyes.com/articles/archive?tmpl=component&view=show&layout=preview&newsletterId=864#article-4879

Although I don't think I understand what exactly he is taking issue with. Dov is speaking from the point of view of someone who knows they are sick and cannot look normally at a woman. For such a person, they can't go around the whole day saying "Feh". They have to learn that all women are just people, creations of Hashem. And the best way to do that is by reminding oneself that they are human, they don't crave perverts who want to see them as objects, and they have wants, needs and insecurities. By praying for them, we help ourselves develop the right attitude towards them.
Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.

Re: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 17 Jun 2020 12:18 #351389

  • higher
  • Current streak: 37 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 223
Cats outta the bag! Gaurd, you spoiled everything!
I think there are fellows here who do understand what i am talking about.
I listened to the audio and although i hear what you are saying-this is not the first time this discussion was discussed on this forum (markz would prob. be able to unearth it, but i doubt he has interest) then it was def. a general discussion (unless i completely missed the boat). In terms of reb dovs recording (Voldemort had a much better ring...) The recording was placed as part of a general chizzuk email from gye together with thier standard shmiras einayim chizzuk matireals even for ''healthier people'' I dont believe Dov made any such disclaimers (although i think you are right gaurd), and this is besides the fact that there are MANY gray areas in terms of madreigos where people are holding and if or not ''feh'' will be appropriate. I could be wrong, but i think it was still confusing. at least for all the less intelligent among us like myself who actually were confused by the audio.
#less intelligent lives matter!
Aside from the above point, there is something else which Gaurd is not addressing. I was also trying to highlight that there is a very practical difference of the way non jewish women (and men) are influenced to view these topics. And thats way outside the discussion that we are the am hanivchar etc. (although perhaps it has roots over there...)
I believe that there was purposefull content amongst these posts (thank you IWNGU for bringing that out) regardless and for those that relate I ask that the basic message (being very broad minded and accepting that many have complete opposite experinces then the one giving advice) does not get washed away. 
P.s. despite sleepys outrage, i am still considering further editing my post. The protester is not narrow minded, (my opinion), he mostly just wants to suggest that gye should be on a positive tone. He also felt i was a bit sharp in my disgreement. I agree that the tone on GYE should be hopeful and positive, even though emotions sometimes get the better of me.
Last Edit: 17 Jun 2020 17:59 by higher.

Re: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 17 Jun 2020 13:35 #351399

  • sleepy
  • Current streak: 1298 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 836
  • Karma: 0
the.guard wrote on 17 Jun 2020 11:34:

sleepy wrote on 17 Jun 2020 05:03:
i was wondering(due to highers nice description of him) who is this chashuve  guy who made that audio, i still dont know.








He's referring to this audio share by Dov:
https://guardyoureyes.com/articles/archive?tmpl=component&view=show&layout=preview&newsletterId=864#article-4879

Although I don't think I understand what exactly he is taking issue with. Dov is speaking from the point of view of someone who knows they are sick and cannot look normally at a woman. For such a person, they can't go around the whole day saying "Feh". They have to learn that all women are just people, creations of Hashem. And the best way to do that is by reminding oneself that they are human, they don't crave perverts who want to see them as objects, and they have wants, needs and insecurities. By praying for them, we help ourselves develop the right attitude towards them.

thanks guard for   the posters identity, i really didnt know who higher was  referring to, so ill make believe that i still dont know so no one should think that im attacking dov personaly,
i didnt listen to the audio, did dov (or the speaker) mention meah shearim yidden who scream pritzus?or did someone else mention that example?if he did :
(the speaker)"is speaking from the point of view of someone who knows they are sick and cannot look normally at a woman. "
i dont think the average meah shearim screamer  guy knows he is sick,maybe he isnt , probably not.just like when he screams Shabbos! i dont think he is secretly kindling fire on Shabbos giggling to himself.
that said, i just want to say there 2 types of" feh"ers
1.whenever a pretty much decently dressed woman passes by and a person says feh!
2. whenever a  pretty not decently woman passes by,( do i have to elaborate?) and a person says feh!
 regarding persom #1 , im willing to admit  to the speaker that that should not be ones reaction, as Rabbi Miller ztl once said,"a woman will not be punished for looking like a woman" its the pritzus that  stokes up gehinom flames.
 you have some people here who seem to be of the opinion that person #  2 is wrong for throwing gehinom  at the second lady as dehuminizing her by mentaly cursing her out instead of blessing her thats the opnion that  i take issue with. and to speak  about her nicely and say ,oh she doesnt want to catch mens eyes ,oh  no, no, no, she just wants to air out and take a stroll,DONT LOOK if it bothers you., i think thats being melamid zechus on tipshim and i  think it is taking it a little too far,if this scoundarales women would walk through vilna 200 years ago and people spat and" feh"d at her, would anyone in there right mind accuse them of being sick themselves,?!
there are some people here who have "seen it all" and when they see the average not dressed nicely woman  in the street  they are numb to her, doesnt make the meah shearim yid whos aroused by her and   disgusted by that arousel and is upset at that cause of arousel  automaticaly get a label  pasted on his back" im a sicko,kick me"
waiting for that day when a spirit of purity descends upon this earth and there will be no more "feh"ers on other peoples opinions.
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post 
Last Edit: 17 Jun 2020 16:25 by sleepy.

Re: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 17 Jun 2020 13:54 #351400

  • sleepy
  • Current streak: 1298 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 836
  • Karma: 0
sleepy wrote on 17 Jun 2020 13:35:

the.guard wrote on 17 Jun 2020 11:34:

sleepy wrote on 17 Jun 2020 05:03:
i was wondering(due to highers nice description of him) who is this chashuve  guy who made that audio, i still dont know.







He's referring to this audio share by Dov:
https://guardyoureyes.com/articles/archive?tmpl=component&view=show&layout=preview&newsletterId=864#article-4879

Although I don't think I understand what exactly he is taking issue with. Dov is speaking from the point of view of someone who knows they are sick and cannot look normally at a woman. For such a person, they can't go around the whole day saying "Feh". They have to learn that all women are just people, creations of Hashem. And the best way to do that is by reminding oneself that they are human, they don't crave perverts who want to see them as objects, and they have wants, needs and insecurities. By praying for them, we help ourselves develop the right attitude towards them.

thanks guard for   the posters identity, i really didnt know who higher was  referring to, so ill make believe that i still dont know so no one should think that im attacking dov personaly,
i didnt listen to the audio, did dov (or the speaker) mention meah shearim yidden who scream pritzus?or did someone else mention that example?if he did :
(the speaker)"is speaking from the point of view of someone who knows they are sick and cannot look normally at a woman. "
i dont think the average meah shearim screamer  guy knows he is sick,maybe he isnt , probably not.just like when he screams Shabbos! i dont think he is secretly kindling fire on Shabbos giggling to himself.
that said, i just want to say there 2 types of" feh"ers
1.whenever a pretty much decently dressed woman passes by and a person says feh!
2. whenever a  pretty not decently woman passes by,( do i have to elaborate?) and a person says feh!
 regarding persom #1 , im willing to admit  to the speaker that that should not be ones reaction, as Rabbi Miller ztl once said,"a woman will not be punished for looking like a woman" its the pritzus that  stokes up gehinom flames.
 you have some people here who seem to be of the opinion that person #  2 is wrong for throwing gehinom  at the second lady as dehuminizing her by mentaly cursing her out instead of blessing her thats the opnion that  i take issue with. and to speak  about her nicely and say ,oh she doesnt want to catch mens eyes ,oh  no, no, no, she just wants to air out and take a stroll,DONT LOOK if it bothers you., i think thats being melamid zechus on tipshim and i and is taking it a little too far,if this scoundarales women would walk through vilna 200 years ago and people spat and" feh"d at her, would anyone in there right mind accuse them of being sick themselves,?!
there are some people here who have "seen it all" and when they see the average not dressed nicely woman  in the street  they are numb to her, doesnt make the meah shearim yid whos aroused by her and   disgusted by that arousel and is upset at that cause of arousel  automaticaly get a label  pasted on his back" im a sicko,kick me"
waiting for that day when a spirit of purity descends upon this earth and there will be no more fehers on other peoples opinions.

...and evryone will think like me...
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post 

Re: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 17 Jun 2020 13:57 #351401

  • sleepy
  • Current streak: 1298 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 836
  • Karma: 0
...but will not spell like me...
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post 

Re: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 17 Jun 2020 14:04 #351402

  • sleepy
  • Current streak: 1298 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 836
  • Karma: 0
i hope no one thinks i was belittleing HHMs beracha, it was sleepys poetic way of signing off
i also hope no one thinks i was belittleing the audio speaker , i have in the past  written alot how he is mezake harabim , just saying my  opinion
and p.s., now that i am writing ,to that protesters comment to higher , i just want to say ... forget it.
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post 
Last Edit: 17 Jun 2020 14:07 by sleepy.

Re: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 17 Jun 2020 14:27 #351403

  • Snowflake
  • Current streak: 33 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 231
  • Karma: 20
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Dov painted all frum people into one stroke, saying that those who criticize the goyish culture are really white washing their tayves. 
But from what I understood he said that there are many frum people where their "frumkeit" stands in their way. They do, in fact, use the pritzus argument (which is no doubt true, society has become corrupted) as an excuse for their behaviour. Meaning, yes, the wide society has become sexually explicit (what's even the chiddush here?), but even if that were not the case, you'd still have your issue. The problem with it is that, so long they don't realize the problem is within them, they won't really change. In their minds, they will think them to be tzadikim and the goyish culture the culprit when in fact, they are the ones who are ill. That is not to say society isn't sexually explicit or that those who criticize it are really sick pervs. But many addicts do criticize it as an excuse for their behaviour or worse, use it as a justification and thus never change.
אם יהיו חטאיכם כשנים, כשלג ילבינו

Re: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 17 Jun 2020 15:00 #351404

  • sleepy
  • Current streak: 1298 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 836
  • Karma: 0
thanks snowflake for that share , looking at youre pasuk i thought of  a pshat  al derech drush 
If youre sins will be  red like scarlet(kashanim), Hashem will make them white like snow(kasheleg) with Teshuva
maybe we can say the following
if your sins will be like shanim -years , ive been falling so many years ,
iI will make them like sheleg -snow which melts in a second , meaning Hashem can help us stop  i an instant
while i dought ( how do you spell dought?)the pasuk really means that even in derush , but the the idea itself certainly is true. 
hatzlacha!
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post 
Last Edit: 17 Jun 2020 15:04 by sleepy. Reason: i spelled the, thye

Re: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 17 Jun 2020 16:17 #351413

  • sleepy
  • Current streak: 1298 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 836
  • Karma: 0
i think its my own ,i hope i didnt see someone here post it already
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post 

Re: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 17 Jun 2020 16:41 #351414

  • sleepy
  • Current streak: 1298 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 836
  • Karma: 0
the.guard wrote on 17 Jun 2020 11:34:

sleepy wrote on 17 Jun 2020 05:03:
i was wondering(due to highers nice description of him) who is this chashuve  guy who made that audio, i still dont know.


He's referring to this audio share by Dov:
https://guardyoureyes.com/articles/archive?tmpl=component&view=show&layout=preview&newsletterId=864#article-4879

Although I don't think I understand what exactly he is taking issue with. Dov is speaking from the point of view of someone who knows they are sick and cannot look normally at a woman. For such a person, they can't go around the whole day saying "Feh". They have to learn that all women are just people, creations of Hashem. And the best way to do that is by reminding oneself that they are human, they don't crave perverts who want to see them as objects, and they have wants, needs and insecurities. By praying for them, we help ourselves develop the right attitude towards them.

if i may state another opinion that works for some, that by cursing them out mentaly, helps develop the right attitude about them im refering to women in category#2,see above post.
as far as those women not wanting men to stare at them , i remeber a comercial of a company that was selling a hair conditioner which made the womans hair look good ,and the woman is walking past a man ,and the man stares at her hair  and she notices and smiles,now to who is that commercial geared to , the husbands that they should buy for their wives that shampoo or for the women?i think the women.
here is a womans secular new years resolution which i saw once ," this year i will make heads turn!"
just saying my opinion.and it does have relavence to the fight if anyone wants elabaration,just ask.
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post 

Re: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 17 Jun 2020 17:51 #351417

  • higher
  • Current streak: 37 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 223
Snowflake wrote on 17 Jun 2020 14:27:
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Dov painted all frum people into one stroke, saying that those who criticize the goyish culture are really white washing their tayves. 
But from what I understood he said that there are many frum people where their "frumkeit" stands in their way. They do, in fact, use the pritzus argument (which is no doubt true, society has become corrupted) as an excuse for their behaviour. Meaning, yes, the wide society has become sexually explicit (what's even the chiddush here?), but even if that were not the case, you'd still have your issue. The problem with it is that, so long they don't realize the problem is within them, they won't really change. In their minds, they will think them to be tzadikim and the goyish culture the culprit when in fact, they are the ones who are ill. That is not to say society isn't sexually explicit or that those who criticize it are really sick pervs. But many addicts do criticize it as an excuse for their behaviour or worse, use it as a justification and thus never change.

well said. i would word it slightly diff. but i think everyone gets the point. 

Re: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 17 Jun 2020 20:50 #351424

  • sleepy
  • Current streak: 1298 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 836
  • Karma: 0
BH things have quieted down  over here ,it was getting a little to heated  even for sleepy.btw this is not a bait for anyone.
p.s. if for some contorted rabble rousers reason , someone thinks that i was painting the.guard in a not good light , ill have you know that  if not for the guard , there probably would  not be a gye with all the zikuy harabim involved .
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post 
Last Edit: 17 Jun 2020 20:57 by sleepy.

Re: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 17 Jun 2020 22:37 #351430

  • higher
  • Current streak: 37 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 223
Bein yisroel l'amim-enjoy! under 5 minutes.
www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=115271
please notify me if the link doesnt work.
Last Edit: 17 Jun 2020 22:38 by higher.

Re: bein yisroel l'amim-WARNING! CONTROVERSY! 25 Jan 2021 18:15 #361912

  • YeshivaGuy
  • Current streak: 11 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1010
  • Karma: 64
Hashem Help Me wrote on 16 Jun 2020 22:10:
Higher, your comments are very true. Unfortunately the society around us has become decadent. Even at government level, the Judeo-Christian attitudes of the founding fathers of the USA are being scorned. Liberalism has become a "religion" with a clear agenda of turning 21st century Western Culture into a replica of Greek culture which was a most hedonistic society. That being said, there are many moral and upright Americans who abhor this matzav as much as we do. 

Regarding those who say "feh", I would say the following. There sadly are individuals who always are the ones who "happen to notice" the latest pritzus trends etc. Unfortunately, many of those fellows are in need of help, being hyper-focused on sex themselves. They "enjoy" being on the forefront of inyanei kedusha, probably because they get aroused by it. I state this after having spoken to some such fellows that BH got help and got out of this masquerade. (One was actually a chosson rebbi - imagine his turmoil, the feelings of hypocrisy were destroying him).The professionals they used first demand was -"You may not advise chassanim, you may not go to rabbanim with the latest clothing issues, you may not get involved in shalom bayis issues, etc". These guys are not reshaim, they are cholim.

However there are just as many or more, healthy and normal individuals, who do not notice "everything", but from time to time come across something repulsive (nowadays it's almost impossible for this not to happen). When they say "feh!", they mean it! They are disgusted with the fact that they are raising a family of sweet kids that have to witness this cesspool. 

Let's all daven that Hashem shower a ruach tahara on the world...…..A world of no more "feh"s…...

Amazing 
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Time to create page: 0.57 seconds

Are you sure?

Yes