Me3 wrote on 28 Feb 2011 03:26:


Good point.  Regardless of how things work out, sometime in the near future, IY"H, you may be wishing that you took advantage of all the time you had as a Bochur. 

I hope all goes well for you but a look from an outside observer says that your pushing this forward may be setting yourself up for a whole lot of pain.  If it is meant to be it will be and nothing you do can stop it. If it is not meant to be nothing you do will make it happen.  I really don't mean to rain on your parade but it kinda looks like watching a kid run into traffic and you want to reach out your hand, grab him by the collar yank him back to safety and save his sorry ***.

I hope I'm totally wrong and you live happily ever after.

If I'm not then your always welcome back here anyway

Jooboy do you have connections that we don't have? I think we already know that this will either work or not (lot's of things in life have 2 possible outcomes). And to say he will be in a lot of pain if it doesn't work out, what do you think he was doing before? Or have you been reading his posts?

I wish him happiness in life, and I reiterate that the most important thing for him to be doing now is learning.

Staying Focused,
I hope you are not setting yourself up for a disaster. I am not sure i grasp the whole situation but it does not sound promising. I am so sorry! You sound crushed and you are not facing reality.

Hopeful,
Honestly I have no clue what I'm doing!! The past week we've been texting each other constantly throughout the day, and its seriously been wonderful. I just love talking to her all the time, and I feel like I never want it to stop. I've stayed up till the wee hours of the morning (usually after 4) this whole week talking to her; I just can't get enough of her. Unfortunately this hasn't helped her come to a decision that I want and honestly as every1 is saying for now I'm prob setting myself up for a big disaster :-( My parents asked me if I'm ready to move on and start dating other girls (they have no clue we've still b talkin, if they did I prob wudnt b here anymore), and it basically turned into a bit of a yelling match. I told them there is no way I am ready to move on, I can't possibly get her out of my head. Deep down I have this crazy feeling that its gonna work, and it won't leave. My parents asked me y on earth am I chasing after som1 hu doesn't wanna marry me!! I'm making myself crazy for some1 that clearly doesn't have strong ENOUGH feelings for me, and y wud I want that?! I need to find some1 hu is gonna b making themselves crazy and goin to all ends of the world just to marry me!!! Honeslty I know this makes sense to a degree, but I do know that she has very strong feelings for me. She has been making herself crazy to make it work, she's been seeing a therapist, and emailing rabbi twerski and hopefully getting in contact wit another rav hus a big expert in these ares. I really can't explain y she can't do it, and wats crazy is that she can't pin it on something either. She says the doubts only came after our fall, and if that's the case it shud b directly related to an effect of our fall. I can't think of a single thing that's reason enough based on our fall to not go ahead wit this! And even wen we spoke to a big rav at that time a month and a half ago, he said that if everything we liked about each other is still there, then despite our fall there's no reason based on his experiences that it shudnt work! I really think I'm deluding myself into thinking its gonna work just cuz I want it so badly, and it makes no sense y it shudnt work. This is obv not a reason, but it still makes it extremely difficult nonetheless to move on. I keep trying to tell myself that this is not meant to b rite now, but it just makes me so depressed; I want her sooo badly. Last nite wen we were texting we actually got into a convo that wasn't exatly kosher. We were basically reliving our experiences of our fall. I know it was very wrong, and I feel guilty that we did it and I'm not even sure y i let it happen esp after knowing we need to b very careful, but it just made me want to b wit her soo badly!! I don't mean strictly in a physical sense, I just miss her so much and wanna spend time wit her again where nothin else mattered but us! I know I'm prob fooling myself, but it happens to b that well b at the same wedding next week. Its gonna b the first time ill c her in like a month and I'm beyond excited. I just wanna hang out wit her and just catch up in easc others company, it just makes me soo happy to b wit her. Idk this is crazy I'm being retarted here and I know that I need to come to the realization that this over, but its not working yer, and I know its cuz I'm doin things that aren't letting that happen. But that's the thing, I just don't want to let go, being wit her is the best thing in the world!!

I second that. (Sorry I don't know how to say that in the modern texting language you obviously prefer )

Your story reminds me of a period of time when I dated a girl while I was far away from home somewhere for a three week visit.  I dated this girl almost every day for the last 4 or 5 days I was there.  After that we kept up by phone for a number of weeks sometimes talking for 10 or 12 hours a day!! Now that I remember and write it, it seems almost impossible to believe.  There are many differences between the my situation and your current one but there is also some parallel.  OBSESSION.  Other than obsession with GOD that comes from true ahavas Hashem, it is probably NEVER a healthy thing.  I would go so far as to say that obsession could itself destroy any chances of a healthy relationship that could otherwise work. 

I'm not writing here to rip on you but you seem to be posting to get some feedback and you also seem to realize that this is not healthy.  YOUR RIGHT!!!!

It was only after my obsessive long distance relationship ended that I was able to see how sick it was and how unhealthy a route it was taking.

Do yourself a favor and quit the crazies before you get really stuck. 

Loving you my fellow jew boy - pray to GOD for good counsel and serenity to make good decisions for yourself.

Jooboy,
Sorry bout the lingo, I like posting from my phone (I like to stay off the computer as much as possible) so the txting lang is the most natural lol. But anyways, idk wat ur situation was like and if it compares, but ill fill u in wit a bit of mine. My girlfriend and I r also from 2 different cities, and it always allowed for an in btwn period that was too long for us not to communicate. It obv started gradually, where in the beginning we wud b shocked that we were on the phone for an hour, which then felt like an eternity. But as things got more serious and we became closer we started talking a lot more often and longer. It came to a point where my sched was go to yeshiva for first seder, come home and speak till second seder, speak after second seder till nite seder, and then wed speak on the phone for another 3 hours easy. And here's the kicker this happened every single day for many weeks!! My parents thought I was crazy, and that was witout even knowing the extent of how long we were actually speaking a day. They cudnt understand how we cud b on the phone for soo long everyday and still have things to talk about. To me it seemed that every1 prob wit how much we were talking was that wed lose our excitement and it wud just become a bore. But this was sooo far from the case. We both felt crazy excited to spk to each other wenever we had a chance. A text from here wud bring a smile to my face. At that point I wud say we def were obsessed wit each other, and that was the point that we were ready to get engaged and set up a date for out vort, and u know wat I dont think it was bad to b obbsessed like that. But then unfortunately we took that excitement and extended it into areas which weren't allowed and it sapped the life out of our relationship :-( since that time we've been working really hard to get it bak, and I really feel that to an extent a lot of those feelings r bak and I've been ready waiting for her to just say yes. For wtvr reason we cudnt date any longer, and she had to make a decision 1 way or another if this is wat she wanted or not. At this point her answer is no, albeit a no that has very little confidence to it. And that's y she's been working by speaking to therapist and rabbeim to help her sort things out cuz she does want it to work but she's missing something, and no1 knows wat that is! But her saying no didn't take away any of my feelings for her, and I still feel about her as I did before our fall. Just like then I was always excited to hear from her, call it an obsession if u want, so too now I still feel that way! I have invested sooo much of myself into her, and cuz of that my feelings for her r even stronger than they were before. Its like  rav dessler says about the word ahava coming from hav-to give- the more u give to some1 the more u naturally love them. So call it wtvr u want, and I know that I'm being crazy running after something that rite now doesn't seem to fully want me, but I can't will myself to care. Its almost as if I don't want help and I just wanna stay connected to her at all costs; I feel like I can just put the whole world on hold, but I know that's not exactly facing reality. Its just soo hard to let go of some1 u feel soo deeply about :-(   

1. Obsessed doesn't mean love.
2. Nice quote of R' Dessler, what have you "given" her that you think you qualify for love?
That you spoke with her for countless hours? That you invested time? That was all for you. Yes for you! Love at first sight doesn't exist. Attraction at first sight does.

So calm down, get a hold of yourself. Exhibit a little self control. Give the poor girl a chance to make a rational decision. Don't talk to her every minute of the day. And try to start learning a little bit so maybe you'll at least have G-d on your side?

Staying Focused,
Again I don't know your background so it is hard to say, but in most circles when a shidduch couple breaks up, they don't contact each other any more. Do you wish to stay just friends? Or you are hoping it will go back to a couple again? I really don't think non kosher conversations will help AT ALL! If your set back was caused because of your fall together, continuing to have not appropriate conversation will most probably set her back again. Did you two make up what will be at the wedding- will you speak, or avoid each other? I wish you all the comfort in the world in this tough situation, may Hashem comfort you. How are you doing with your lust? Did the non kosher conversation c'v cause any downfalls? We are all rooting for you. Have a good shabos.

hopeful wrote on 04 Mar 2011 18:56:


If there's ever such a thing as a completely platonic friendship between a man and a woman (I don't believe there is), it would not be possible in this case (or any situation where they were emotionally invested with one another).

SF,

I'm sorry to say that I don't think you're staying focused anymore.  You could have had a week or two of healing behind you, but, instead, you're still trying to hold on.

Rav Yisroel Reisman tells a Mashal where someone is visiting an insane asylum and hears someone saying "Sarah . . .  oh Sarah . . ." again and again.  He asks one of the nurses what is going on.  She responded, "He once wanted to marry a woman named 'Sarah,' but she turned him down, and he's been like this ever since."

The visitor walks to the other end of the hall, and hears someone else saying "Sarah . . .  oh Sarah . . ." again and again.  "Who's that?" the visitor asks.  The nurse replies "That's the man who ended up marrying Sarah!"

Pushing too hard is never a good idea, and it will just push her away further, or, c"v, cause you to wind up like one of those two fellows.  For your own sake, don't do it any more.

And, please, do yourself a favor: if you really care about this girl, and are not motivated by self interest, wish her well and move on. 

Have you read The Magic Touch by Gila Manolson?  I think it contains the answer as to why things started going downhill just when they did.

Hatzlacha!  May HKB"H answer all your Tefilos for the good!

I don't mean to sound Chassidish or anything, but I would humbly suggest that you take a headfirst dive into an ice cold Mikvah...

Your past and present emotional entanglement with this girl is not helping your seichel stay in the driver's seat.

Even if Hashem's ultimate plan is to see you two meet under a chuppah somewhere -the kind of obsessive behavior which you are describing sounds unhealthy (that's being generous).

You have to reign in your emotions and take cold calculating stock of your situation...

Whether it's all over, or this is just a time-out -you have to start living in the present, and not wallow in the past.

Sorry for being abrupt, and wishing you Hatzlachah in all of your endeavors,

Your chaver,

E. ben Durdayah

Staying Focused,
I think kedusha is right. He suggested distancing your self. It is a win- win situation.
a- either the distance will bring her the realization that she made a mistake and you will get back together
b- or the distance will help both of you move on and find your true zivugim.

Either way you can not hold on forever because you are trying to bring this back by holding and it is not working, Let go, although its hard to move on go through the motions and eventually you will realize that you haven't thought about her for a day or two. It will get better. Try to jump into the dating game again even though its hard to maybe that will help you begin to move on. You will never forget about her but you can try to leave it with just nice memories instead of longing to be with her.

Listen to your name- STAY FOCUSED on your goal- to be an eved Hashem! Learn with enthusiasm.

Good luck and let us know how you are doing!

Sorry I haven't responded in a while, ill try to explain. As eveyr1 knows I have been in contact wit her via texting for the past while. I knew it was wrong and it wasn't letting me move on, but deep down I didn't want to move on cuz wit her everything was just perfect. Now even tho we were talking we happened to have made up that were not gonna speak for a few days to try to help us start the process of moving on. The details don't matter, but basically last motzei shabbos we ended up texting thru the whole nite. During this time at like 430 am my dad came into my room and saw me texting. The next morning he confronted me bout it and I told him that we were still n contact. He was extremely upset to say the least, especially cuz I had agreed that wtvr her decision was 2 weeks ago I wud accept, and now I was goin behing his bak and betraying his trust. Ouch!! I kept telling him that I wasn't ready to move on wit my life, and I guess now he knew part of the reason. I felt pretty low that day and I was gonna post, but I felt terrible that she wud have to find this out thru my forum and not directly from me. And I didn't wanna tell her then either cuz she told me that she had a fall and I really didn't want to make her more depressed and lead her into another fall c"v. I was gonna tell her the next nite, but she seemed to b having a good time wit her friends and I didn't wanna ruin it wit my news that I got caught and now we have to completely end this:-( The next morn tho I put an email tog and sent it to her. She sent 1 bak, and it was kinda a goodbye email. She happened to b comin to my city this week and I told her that I'd like to say goodbye in person. We've been thru a hell of a lot tog and I feel we owe it to each other to say goodbye in person, and not thru email text or even on the phone. I plan on doing this on monday, and I'm kinda dreading it. I am slowly coming to the realization that this has to b and is over and we have no choice but to move on. I know every1 has been saying that its the best thing for the both of us, but I'm not gonna lie accepting this fact is THE hardest nisayon I have ever been faced wit. Marrying her wudve made my life perfect in terms of finding an amazing girl to help me grow in every area and starting a family in the proper path, and it wud help me tremendously in the next part of my life. Coming to terms wit this reality, I have now realized that my life has become extremey complicated and decisions that I thought were clear cut r now the furthest thing from it. I'm not gonna go into details at the moment, I plan to talk to my rebbi soon and discuss it wit him and ill keep every1 posted. Its funny how u never think u will b the 1 that has such a complicated life. U always think these things only happen to other ppl, but I guess its time to wake up. I'm getting a pretty rough welcome to life, and I'm gonna have to stay prety close to my father in heaven, cuz somehow this is wat I need to do and it is for my best, even tho at the moment it feels like the furthest thing from making sense!! Thanx for listening, looking forward to the responses.