Life is not about wishing

Its about adapting to situations

I have no magic

Neither do u

Here is a few things running thru her mind (or you may think that she may be thinking)

He thinks I'm used
He thinks I'm cheap

Man she may be right

Look her in the eye and say
" I am sorry"

Let's move on!

If and when u get engaged

Pleez limaancha have a quick engagement

Or go to a different town country. Etc.

One last thing


Be besimcha!

B

Its been a couple of days, but b"h I have some good news. I went out on 2 dates in the past 2 days and b"h things seem to b heading in the rite direction. Our first date wasn't our greatest but it def went well enough to give us hope that things will b alrite after our previous disaster date. We went out again yest and it went even better than the previous date. We had planned to do certain things but they didn't work out in the end, but we were able to improvise and we had some fun like old times. It was just nice to enjoy each others company once again! Its quite a relief that things r progressing and moving in the rite direction and I hope and pray that it shud continue like this. I know its gonna b a lot of hard work but I think with Hashems help we have wat it takes. 

It will work out. You are so lucky to have found such an amazing girl who will be the foundation of a holy and pure bayis ne-eman b-Yisrael.

We are here for you and I am really happy for you. I wish you only success in your avodas hashem, individually and as a couple.

Feel free to PM. Hatzlocha brother.

bardichev wrote on 19 Jan 2011 05:08:


I'd like to weigh in here. This is the first time I am offering my 2 cents in a conversation. I can't help but agree with what Bards said. By scaling back that will help to rebuild the excitement. But specifically writing a letter is a fabulous thing. When speaking to somebody in person you always have to deal with the fact that once the words leave your mouth there is nothing you can do to get them back. But when you write it down, you have a chance to edit those words before it is too late.
You have a difficult situation to balance. On the one hand you want to get your relationship back to where it was. You want her to know how you feel, and you want to express your true emotions. On the other hand, because of what happened, you can't get to personal or detailed or intimate with your feelings because that may lead back down the wrong road, or it may scare the both of you right out of the relationship. You must choose your words very carefully. Try to say and express what needs to be said, but try to do it in as parve a way as possible. This is not easy. But it's virtually impossible to get it just right the first time. And that's where writing becomes an invaluable tool. Start by writing what's in your heart in the best way you know how. Then begin editting. If possible, under the circumstances,let a third party proofread it first to see if he gets the message as you are trying to deliver it. When you are confident that you did the best that can be done, Send it, and trust in Hashem that whatever is best for the both of you, that is the effect that your letter will have. Oh. There is one more great benefit to writing as opposed to speaking. If it goes well, and you create that bond that will last a life time, that wonderful letter that helped to make it happened can be saved as a memento and a fond memory of how far you've come, and your true feelings for each other.
I hope this helps you.
May Hashem guide you both to find true happiness in your lives, wherever they may lead you.
Reb Yid

One more thing.
Even though you've been meeting in person since then, and it seems to be going in the right direction, a letter can never hurt. You never know what may be the Makeh Bepatish to finally get it all back. Think about it.

I'd like to make 2 points: first to dovekbashem, how r u so certain its gonna work out?? I'm so nervous about the whole thing that mayb something is gonna happen and mess it all up. Don't get me wrong, I sooo badly want this to work out you have no idea. Besides for everything I have invested into it, I honestly feel like the luckiest guy in the world to have found such an amazing girl! We really have such an amazing relationship and I really think our potential is endless. I mean there r like a million and 1 reasons y I wanna marry her, and I guess that makes me even more nervous that it won't work out. We just spent the past few days wit each other and b"H things went smoothly in that we were able to forget about everything and just have a nice time and enjoy each other. It was a big relief to c that we cud still do that, but wat if...like I'm so afraid to make a wrong move cuz hu knows wat thatll do! Which kind of brings me to my next point, that mayb cuz of that I/we r holding ourselves bak from being too loose and that's mayb holding bak our excitement?? She actually spoke to some1 about this and they told her that wen u date ur in a la la land, where everything is so exciting and amazing all the time, and wen u get married u kinda get hit wit reality and its not all fun and games. And cuz of our "situation" we were actually thrown out of our lil la la land and r now in reality, the real world! Does this mean well never get bak that first excitement we used to have for 1 another?? My rebbi actually said the same thing and he said we don't need that excitement to get engaged but if/wen we do then well have that same excitement that every1 has. Idk I'm a bit confused and scared at the same time, and the pressure from the whole situation doesn't really help either :-(

O and thanx reb yid and bards for the letter suggestion. Actually for the past bunch of weeks I've written cards on wednesdays, which is our weeks anniversary lol. Usually I write my feelings about where were holding and hope that it continues to progress etc.. After our "situation" I actually sat down and wrote a really long heart wrenching 1, and it felt good for myself too to put that on paper and give it to her. She has written me some cards too, although she's not so expressive wit a pen and paper, its just not her nature. But I'm happy to have those cards wit me now, cuz wen I look at those cards from time to time I know the words came from her true feelings then, and I guess that makes me happy that she has the letters I wrote her to look bak on (at least I hope she does lol). I'm not gonna b seeing her tom (wednesday) so usually I wudnt b writing her anything, but mayb it wud b a good idea anyways to write her something for tom, just put down my feelings on paper. Thanx guys, ill keep u posted...

Look Stay,

I'm not a Navi, but I think that I can tell you with certainty that just about every couple at some time during the dating process gets thrown out of 'la la land' and into reality, especially as the time to make a real commitment nears. Still, with each stage that the couple reaches, a new excitement sets in and after that a new reality. It's a totally new kind of excitement, and a totall new kind of reality. By way of Mashal I would say that in the same way that the excitement of being a newlywed having worn off, doesn't detract from the freshness and excitement of becoming a father for the first time -so does the excitement of being an engaged couple -which usually gets forgotten entirely when leaving "la la land" and entering the nitty-gritty of wedding plans etc. -not detract from the totally new status of being married. Engagement and marriage aren't just the tachlis of dating and a continuation or expansion of the previous relationship -they are each a totally unique and new relationship in and of themselves.

And as far of your fears of making a critical mistake are concerned, like Bard's said -at the risk of sounding old fashioned -the Steipler would advise engaged couples to be in as little contact as possible- as in almost none because the engagement period is fraught with tension and various kinds of pressure -and the less the couple see each other then -the less chance they have of making stupid mistakes; whereas the Chosson and Kallah many times think they're in a 'comfort zone' and can say or do things which -after marriage -would be insignificant, but could even lead to a broken engagement davka because on a certain level -relative to marriage -engagement is a "la la land" in it's own right. This is also the reason why short engagements are recommended for most couples. I could expand on this for a while, but I don't have time.

Hatzlacha,

EBD

Hey ebd thanx for the post, but I gotta a lil question bout the second half of it. I agree that once engaged its important to stay away and thatll help prevent any possible mishaps etc..but I'm NOT engaged yet!! I'm worried sick at the stage I'm in rite now to make a mistake thatll possibly ruin everything we have. Our relationship is def gettin better but I still think its a bit fragile. And cuz of that I'm prob holding bak a bit for fear of doin something wrong!! I know that getting engaged will def bring new excitement into the relationship, and honestly even though I don't have the same excited feelings of the past I still think I cud get engaged now cuz I love this girl and everything I loved about her then is still very much here now. I just don't c that happening at this very moment cuz shed never go for that, I'm hoping wit some more time it'll help us get there.

I don't know ur background

In my circles dates are the norm

But sounds like u are looking for something more


Cmon either get in or get out

I'm missing something

Please explain

Hey Stay,

I wanted to respond to your question. You asked me how I know for sure that it will work. The answer is that I don't - because I'm not a prophet and I can't know for sure. Also, I'm not married and you should have that in mind as you read this. Still, my impression has always been that you are not meant to marry the person who things will be perfect around and who things will always "work" with but that you are supposed to find that girl who you are willing to do everything in the world to try to make it work with. Nobody is perfect but there is one girl who you find that, for whatever reason (or in your case, a million and one reasons), she is worth working for and struggling for.
The reason why I think that it will work out in the end is not because the relationship is perfect but rather precisely because it is NOT perfect, and you are still working so hard for it and want it so badly. That says something truly amazing about her and about your feelings for her.

I hope someday to be zoche to find my own imperfect wife and imperfect marriage who is so amazing and incredible that I am willing to spend the rest of my life trying to make it perfect and trying to make it better.

Feel free to PM me if I wasn't clear or if you disagree but I have to say that, from my perspective, Hashem has given you a really amazing gift and I am so happy for you.

In my circles (chasidish) there are no dates at all just 1 or 2 short meetings, (parents waiting in the next room)
And although most of us are not in "la la land" during engagement - as we barely know each others names :D -  it does not lack in true love after the marriage. It takes time but slowly but surely we get there.
In may opinion, and as you can see from the Staipler Gaons letter, the prolonged dating process and the "la la land" syndrome, makes it only more difficult to get to true love for the other person. Love after marriage is completely different then the "love at first sight" and excitement from before.
And if there is this special connection and affection before the wedding it does not guarantee at all that it will work out later.
In your situation you have got now a much clearer vision to make the right choice (those million and 1 reasons).
But lemaan hashem don’t drag it on and on.
Make up your mind and go for it.
Hatzlucha in whatever you decide and tomid besimcha

I can vouch for tomid besimcha's words -I also went the 2-3 meeting route and B"h even though the first thing that I thought when I left the wedding with my fresh kallah was "Omigosh, we are perfect strangers", we built the most wonderful loving relationship.

Ive been meaning to post for a while, but these last 2 and a half weeks have been a really rough a strssful period for me. The last time i posted, things were finally lookin up in my relationship, althogh i was scared with where it would go next. To make a long story short, over the last 2 weeks things got a lot better in that there was plenty of excitement between us and we had decided that a few more dates would be enough to finally seal the deal. But apparently hashem in his infinite wisdom had some other plans in store for us. After these dates, my girlfriend (for lack of a better term) still didnt feel ready to commit yet. She felt that she needed to go home and sort out her thoughts and talk it over wit her parents. I spoke to her the next day, and basically she said she was just lacking the excitement to get engaged. As much as she tried to will herself to do it she just couldnt do it if her heart wasnt there. By now we had been goin out for more than 3 months, which in our circles is really very long. My parents were already comletely stressed from this whole dragged out process, and were basically ready to just say enough. She knew this was the reality of situation, and she didnt know what to do. The last thing she wanted to do was end this relationship cuz she she loves me and she knows what we have and really wants it work out, but she just couldnt get engaged yet either and therefore by default...at this point i was crying my brains out pleading with her that it shud b the other way, that cuz she cant end this relationship we have to get engaged! We basically ended this convo bawling, and i said id speak to my parents and rebbi to c wat the next move wud b. Truth b told my parents felt that it was over and as hard as it wud b for me, they cudnt watch me get hurt from this anymore and therefore they wanted to end it. My rebbi tho convinced them we give her another week; basically we wil have zero contact for this week and she will call me this motzei shabbos (which wud b a full week after i last spoke to her) with an answer 1 way or the other and wtvr will b will b. Before i actually gave her this ultimatium, i again pleaded wit her to listen to wat she was saying. She told me countless times that if we got married we wud have a great and extremely happy marriage and that we wud b able to make it work and shes never gonna find some1 like me and hu shell love as much as me again, yet cuz she doesnt have these "western culture feelings of romance" she cant get engaged!! It just makes no sense!! I keep telling her that wen we get to the bext stage those feelings will def b there, just jump wit me, but all of this just fell on deaf ears!! And now im seriously goin out of my mind waiting for her answer. Every time im sitting alone, i get lost in my thoughts thinking about wat if she says no? That means were done forever, thats a reality that i dont think i can face. Ive never had a relationship like this wit any1, and i cant imagine i will again. I have shared things wit her that i havent shared wit any1. Weve been thru many difficulties tog that have only made us more deeply connected, and im scared stiff from the prospect of losing all of that just cuz of some stupid "feelings". Honeslty this wud b more than just ending a relationship wit a girl, it wud b like i just lost my best friend. I cant imaging not being able to check in and c how shes doin or sharing wit her some exciting news that happened in my life, or just calling her randomly to shmooze about everything and anything. Its been extremely difficult to sit down and learn normally, or to do anything for that matter, my mind is just completely consumed wit this. I literally check my phone every 2 sec looking to c mayb shes calling me or texting me.  The anxiety and stress is killing me, and its only tuesday!! I still have another full 4 days to go! And to make matters worse the past 2 days ive actually started to feel some major lust pulls. The y"h has got me down in the dumps now and hes been working extra hard on me lately, and its only gonna get harder :-( i keep telling myself i have to stay strong and that lookin at p*** and mas*** just isnt gonna make me feel better. I have to keep my guard up at all times and stay focused, and just surrender it all to hashem cuz i really cant do it without him. Im davening extra hard that hashem help me pass my nisyanos 1 day at a time, and that everything shud work out with this whole situation very quickly cuz honeslty its really eating me up alive! Heeeellllpppp!!!

Can't be Ma'arich, feel your pain.

Staying -at this point (at every point, but usually there's a hishtadlus) the ball is totally in your potential kallah's court and Hashem's hands.

You have to let go and let G-d.

Read dov's dose of yesterday.

As with everything else -this is totally bashert.

I realize how crushed you will feel if the relationship breaks up -it may or may not.

But whether it does or it doesn't -you'll have to get on with life. So relax, and take a deep breath.

Whatever happens keep in touch -we'll do our best to help you over whatever happens.

Catch you later,

E