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TOPIC: 84 days and no cigar 1512 Views

84 days and no cigar 02 Jan 2011 16:34 #91564

  • cholentfresser
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I got to 84 days on the chart the other week...and then had a fall.
I decided to share a few thoughts and feelings which I hope will be cathartic for myself and maybe will be of some help to others. Now the 84 days were not without a couple of mini-falls but i gotta be honest with myself and boy is it hard to be honest when you get to day 84. But one thing I have realised is that having an issue with viewing inappropriate sites is one thing but lying to myself is quite another. If you cant be honest with yourself how can you ever grow past this thing?
I am not sure whether I am an addict. About a year and a half ago during a particularly stressful time in my life I had a series of serious falls. I was surprised at myself, shocked really. BH I pulled back and since then I have occasionally visited soft P websites. This was happening once  a weekly  basis at one point, from the time I found GYE (about 7 months ago) it has happened only 5 or 6 times. BH I feel much better and I feel I understand much better what is going on with me. I have a trendous amount of respect with those on the forum who are struggling with this and wish everyone much siata dishmaya. So I dont really think I am an addict but maybe I think that just cos I dont want to be one. Anyone got any thoughts?
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Re: 84 days and no cigar 02 Jan 2011 16:49 #91565

  • bardichev
Who care what u are

Pick urself up

Dust ur pants

Now run from third to home!!!


Yes u can!!!!

B
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Re: 84 days and no cigar 02 Jan 2011 17:04 #91567

  • im not alone
Hi
first of all welcome
Cholentfresser wrote on 02 Jan 2011 16:34:

I am not sure whether I am an addict......
So I dont really think I am an addict but maybe I think that just cos I dont want to be one. Anyone got any thoughts?


It really depends how you define the word "addict" it looks like you think -it might be true- that an addict means someone who watches p..n 10 times a day although i really think an addict means anyone who watches p..n (or anything like it) even once when he has to do other stuff in the same time, he knows that after he is done mas... he is going to be busy but he just keeps pushing it off in order to watch.. 
anyone who does that "even once" i would consider a fully fledged addict

We could debate that

But in any case i think thats irrelevant because one fall is way too much
We need to be free man

one think is for sure: you are in the right place,
oh and you like cholent (who makes the best cholent?)

stay here and hold on tight brother dont let me fall, were in it together
your brother
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Re: 84 days and no cigar 02 Jan 2011 20:03 #91592

  • laagvokeles
טשולנט פרעסער:
first u gotta think עפ"י תורה, and עפ"י תורה you are not an addict just a בעל עבירה, the אור החיים הקדוש in פרשת אחרי מות says that the aveiro of זנות there is no way to fight it if you; think about woman or look at woman, so start by not thinking and not looking, and see what happens.....

sometimes this "theory" of "adict" ppl use it in a wrong way and telling them self,  "oh my i  am such a poor guy im an addict im not gonna burn in hell for this i am a אונס"  so it comes out that to say that u are an adict its just part of the יצר הרע.

any way you are a good jew cause u like tchulent, try first whats written in our bible what to do not to fall into this "znus family" porn, masturbation or חס ושלום even been בועל ארמית וכדו'.....

MEN DARF TSHUVE TUN!
Last Edit: 02 Jan 2011 20:05 by .

Re: 84 days and no cigar 02 Jan 2011 21:16 #91610

  • frumfiend
The cigar is normal living not nimety days. Ask yourself is life becoming more normal?
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Re: 84 days and no cigar 03 Jan 2011 16:50 #91680

  • ZemirosShabbos
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Frumfiend The star wrote on 02 Jan 2011 21:16:

The cigar is normal living not nimety days. Ask yourself is life becoming more normal?

beautiful and so true

we need to learn how to live like normal human beings, with derech eretz that is kodmah leTorah (as Dov often says).

84 days is a beautiful chunk of time in which you showed yourself that you can live without the garbage and you made a habit of being clean. that is great!

if you had a fall pick yourself up and keep on moving in the right direction, see what you can learn from the fall and then move on, don't dwell on it, it will only do further damage.

keep up your great work!
Sometimes life is like tuna with not enough mayonaise
~Inna beshem ZS

Give, Forgive
~Cordnoy

The reason I'm acting as if I'm pregnant, is because I'm expecting. I should be accepting.
~TZ
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Re: 84 days and no cigar 03 Jan 2011 16:54 #91681

  • cholentfresser
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Hmm, ok, lots of good stuff, ty everybody.

My thing is this and someone mentioned this - if I'm not an addict then I'm a baal aveiro and I can control it, if I are an addict then it is out of my control and I need a 12 step program or therapy. I find myself wanting to be a baal aveiro cos I dont like the idea of being out of control and I dont want to go thru a 12 step program.

On another note, I have no problem with this thing when I am busy, its just when I am not busy it becomes much much more of a challenge. Sundays are hard days.
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Re: 84 days and no cigar 03 Jan 2011 18:23 #91692

Cholentfresser wrote on 03 Jan 2011 16:54:

My thing is this and someone mentioned this - if I'm not an addict then I'm a baal aveiro and I can control it, if I are an addict then it is out of my control and I need a 12 step program or therapy. I find myself wanting to be a baal aveiro cos I dont like the idea of being out of control and I dont want to go thru a 12 step program.

  The question really is CAN YOU CONTROL IT? The question of being able to control doesn't necessarily stem from the question of "am I an addict", the question is a question in itself, can I control it. 
  In truth I doubt that in the literal sense you can be called addict. I would define an addict as someone who although he doesn't want to do a specific action, and knows he doesn't want to do the action at the time he is doing the action-he still does it anyway. S/o who does an action because he's bored or because the y"h got ahold of him would be hard pressed to call himself an addict (I think)!
  Also an addiction stems from (usually) a long repetition of a specific action and in your case this doesn"t seem to be the case. What do I mean by this?
  The Rambam talks about the idea that Paroh didn't have free will to allow the yidden out of Mitzrayim (inyunu diyomah). He explains that the Torah tells us this to let us know that s/o who does an aveiro over and over, a bunch of times, will lose his power to chose between right and wrong. Hkb"h will take away his bechirah and he no longer will have free will to chose right from wrong. It see,s that the Rambam is explaining what we would call today "addiction". HKB"H runs the world biderech hatevah. Part of what this means is that his actions are shrouded in physicality. We all know that parnasah (livelihood) is not dependant on our hishtadlus (efforts), but in the physical world it seems as it is. One of the reasons for this phenomena is because HKB"H shrouds his actions in physicality. The same seems to be true regarding addiction. What addiction [i][b]really [i][b] is, is HKB"H taking away our free will to chose. This is "acted out" in this world through what we call addiction.
  The same idea is found in gemarah. The gemarah says "One who did an aveiro and repeated it (ie repeated the aveiroh again) it becomes permissible for him to repeat it". Asks the gemarah " can that really be that because one repeated a sin it becomes permissible for him to sin again?' The Gemarah responds "(What is meant by permissible is not that it is really, but rather it seems to him that it is permissible.
  It seems that this Gemarah is the source of the Rambam's idea that one who sins repeatedly can ultimatly lose his power of free will!
  (As a side point- with this we can answer another very perplexing question. Many ask, how is it possible that G_D takes free will away from man? Don't we know that the whole purpose of this world is free will. According to above we can answer that free will is NEVER completely taken away from man. What the Rambam means is that free will in its regular sense can be taken away from man. Although the regular free will can be taken away this does not mean that this person is powerless to undo himself from the clasp of the Y"H. Yes, its true that if he would try to fight it head on (as Paroh may have done) he can't succead, but if (Bitochbulos taaseh milchomah) he works on himself, he can find away around this "addiction" (like the 12 steps)!!!)
  Getting back to our topic at hand: From all that we explained above it would seem that one who fell a few times over a long period of time would probably not be an "addict" in the dictionary sense of the word. But, he WILL have the characteristics of an addict to some extent. Although he may not fall in to the literal sense of the word, but he will have the symptoms of an addict to some degree.
  How do I know this?
      Well, if we are right that the Rambam gets his principle from the Gemorah that we quoted then the obvious conclusion would be that since the gemorah is talking regarding one who did an aveirah "only" twice it must be that sucha person would be called an addict to some degree and he will have the symptoms of an addict (compulsion to act on his addiction  even against his will) to some degrree.
  I"m not sure if this helps at all, but if I didn"t completely confuse you with all this, it may have made things a bit clearer.
  GOOD LUCK AND HATZLOCHA
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Re: 84 days and no cigar 03 Jan 2011 18:27 #91694

messed up with the typesetting-oh well
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Re: 84 days and no cigar 03 Jan 2011 19:02 #91705

  • im not alone
im not alone wrote on 02 Jan 2011 17:04:

one think is for sure: you are in the right place,
oh and you like cholent (who makes the best cholent?)


still no answer cholentfresser huh?
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