Dov, I got to thank you for that post. First time I really smiled in a while. I meen it I"m bn going to to go ahead with your advice. And to David/Rage-you too, thanks for the chizuk.

You think you're a faker?  i'm a 40 year old rising star in my community, host for shabbos, donate like crazy, go to classes all the time, bla bla ba.  but there's a terrible feeling right after i act out that it's all a fake.  that my true self is nothing but void.  i'm very familiar with your feeligs of depression.  unfortunately.  depressing.  yes.

spanon wrote on 27 Dec 2010 06:05:


i keep reading here so many people feel they are fake, empty or whatever, just b/c they act out.
so.....  because we act out, all the Mitzvos we do, all the good things we work so hard to accomplish, the Middos we work on -  do pple really believe the ribono shel olom scoops it all up and tosses them out the window? do pple really believe everything that they do is meaningless?

WTF?

i think, maybe, this whole feeling of ' i appear like a good jew but i'm a fake' - you know what that is? just another tactic of our familiar friend, YH. make u feel stupid and awful about urself which just digs u deeper into ur vicious cycle of self-loathing and depression and RID.

every yid faces Nisyonos. if we were perfect, we might as well be dead. ok, so this Nisayons a pretty big one. but that's still what it is. and it's something we are trying to work on.

u think u r worse than someone who embarrasses someone terribly at a simcha? u think u r worse than someone who says Lashon Hora to his seatmate during Torah Leining? u think u r worse than someone who looses his temper all day at his friends and family?

leave the judgement of who's worse than whom and who's a Rasha to the Ribono Shel Olom.

a good yid is someone who is always trying and working on themselves to be better. you are a good Yid.

you are not a fake, ok? sheesh get over urself

Faker shmaker

Who cares??

All of a sudden we are so honest

Zoll zayn fake

My name was just a feeling I have. Yes, you can argue it's wrong and just because we fall in one thing doesn't make everything else fake, but it sure makes me personally feel that way. If I'm not keeping the most "basic" mitzvos who am I fooling by doing everything else?
    Regarding Berditchuv comment about who cares if we"re fake, I don't think you're being fair. This is something that bothers many people so what right do you have making light of the whole thing? Don't worry I'm not insulted or anything, just saying.
  It is true that in reality all this shouldn't bother us. That's because our life shouldn't be goal oriented, but rather a life of just doing Hashems will. If we were this way it wouldn't make a difference if we"re fake or not. At the present moment I'm doing Hashems will, what difference does it make if we did something wrong yesterday? Right now in this present moment we are doing Hashems will! (See more on this in the attitude handbook)
  Now for some good news, I'm "sober" for 3 days and working on my fourth. Please Hashem help me together with all those struggling from this terrible YH we are all fighting.

My grandfather the heiligger Bardichever discusses this very issue in a few places

He says
Hashem has more taanug from a person who sinned and is fighting to return to him more than from the genuine tzaddikim

Oomain!!

And for the two people here who are going nuts from being such fakers, it seems to me that the biggest proof to yourselves that you are fakers in the acting out with lust you are doing. That is the way it is for me. I could always point to the last time I masturbated to porn either in my mind or in my eye, as proof that I am nothing but a big, stupid, faker.

Reb b is right. Hashem loves you and wants your avodah anyway. Especially yours.

And I say that as long as you realize that you are a mess and always prone to messing everything up, Hashem sees you the same way to 120 - and your avodah will always be as precious. It never gets stale, not to Him and not to us.

Ki ani l'tzelah nachon, umach'ovai negdi tomid! (Teh.38) "I am always mesugal to slip (and fall), and my illness is always set before me." That's just a fact. Ashreinu when we know it, and live that way, with Hashem cuz we need Him. Nebach when we fight the facts, deny our real problem, and insist that we are still the only act in town. If we just tried harder we'd have made it, all along - and "now we'll really begin to fight!"...things do not turn out very well, do they?

Diiing!!!

"Ready for another round...buddy?"

What is this avodah? Hakafos with the YH?  ;D

So instead of depending on me and my lust, I pick the Creator to help me and agree to start letting Him run my life (and the whole show), for a change (even though He was really running it all along! Ha!).

...and that's why it goes on to say, (ibid[whatever that means]) "Hashem teshuasi!" I depend on Him - and give Him all the credit.

(BTW, check out pouring out your kishkes with Teh. 38, 39, and 40. I find them shockingly apropos for an addict like me. You might 'like' them, too!)

Dov, your awesome! Just another point, if we really were fakers we would ignore the problem. Being fake would mean that we believe we are great and really we"re not. Since we realize our mistakes and don"t pretend that we are above it all, what type of fake is that? What does Hashem want? That we don"t do mitzvos? That we don"t do chesed? That we don"t learn Torah? Of course not! Just because we sin, even if the sins are great doesn"t stop the obligation to do mitzvos and therefore doesn"t make us fakes if we do the mitzvos. If we pretended we didn"t sin, or pretended (in our minds) that we were perfect, then we would be a bunch of fakers. (Just saying Dov"s idea in different words)
    CLEAN FOR 4 DAYS! I"m really excited! All day all I think about is when I"ll reach the next milestone! I hope I don"t fall; Please G-D.

Mazel tov jewfy!

KOZ!!!!

So do you notice that your mood in your posts seems to get more "excited", more b'simcha as you count off the days clean? 

I hope you'll consider not letting your mind go to "I hope I don't fall".  I've found that for me it is very difficult to get through a decent enough day.  Being clean is just part of it.  Yeah, a big part, for sure--you should have seen the tsnius level (not) at the Glatt Mart today.  Shmiras eynayim in a crowded grocery store is extra mitzvah points for sure.  But a decent enough day for me means not putting off davening or benching, leyning and davening with at least an effort at kavannoh.  And doing some chesed, and making somebody else's day a little easier going.  And a good talk with Hashem during the day or night.  That's a good enough day.  I have a VERY hard time having a decent day.  So for me, today is enough to pay attention to.  All I ask of my Tatti is just for today, please help me to have a decent day, in Your name.

Fakery.  This moment when our whole life passes before us, and we see The Act, that dreadful moment is the door that must open for deep sincere t'shuvah begins.  At that moment, the moment of truth, we either get back into our act with greater vigor, or we give up, we finally admit we can't go on this way any more.  And from the depths of ourselves that anguished cry rises up and we sob like babies before our Creator, and we beg for help.

I understand what you are going through.  And I am a shrink.  Certified.  35 years.  And I've been in therapy for myself for decades.  It was/is very helpful.  I am also on medication.  This has been a great miracle in my life, but like the therapy, it didn't solve my problem.  I am addicted to lust, and there's just no stopping me.  Until the day i got arrested.  It wasn't and still isn't a pretty picture.  But that was my moment for seeing my act. It took all that shame and the hardships that have come on the heels of that arrest, personally and professionally, for me to begin to look, deeply, and to see that it's not that I'm bad because I am an addict.  it's that I'm hurting, and I need my Hashem, close and personal, because otherwise I'll end up relying on my own devices, and I will make another mess of my life. 

I simply cannot rely on myself.  Yes, I understand the bitachon/hishtadlut conversation.  But at the end of the day, when I've been a shtarker and thrown my weight around, or been an ever so humble tzaddik, at the end of such a day I don't feel decent, I don't feel like a decent mensch.  And I have to sit and have a talk with Hashem, and cry a little that I did it again, and that I'm sorry, and I'll apologize to this one and that one, etc. 

Your depression should be taken extremely seriously.  Therapy, Meds, llight boxes (Thank you Briut), whatever helps.  But my experience is that nothing lifts the spirits like my sincere, one day at at time, t'shuvah.  How my heart has learned to sing since coming here to the GYE community.  A clean day is just such a good feeling.  Such a good thing to be without that conflict.  You're already feeling it, yes?  posting your hear out, working the handbooks, finding the level you need to be at, filters filters filters, chevrah, phone calls, email chizuk.  make it your own.  Ask people if you can call them on the phone.  Sheymzachnisht.  It's a beautiful thing to do.

Nu, let's go together.  Tonight.  And then tomorrow.  Just for tomorrow.  Maybe just for the morning, even. 

Oh, and tefillin and minyon.  somewhere in my thread I talk about exactly the same experience.  I'd sit in the very back of the minyon, sneak in.  Get to Shel Yad, and then just throw the towel in.  This is all part of "coming 'round"  (cowboy for tshuvah).

You are doing and being the most sincere act a person can do--look at themselves squarely and see the pathetic mess we've made.  Then we turn, and ask for help, and begin.  This makes Hashem beam, reyach n'choiach.  You're a mensch.  In the depths of your depression you were able to reach out, ask for help, and then begin.  Four Days!!! .  This is like cracking the code.  One day at a time, now.  Easy easy does it.  don't worry about success, falls.  Just try, as best you are able for now, to take just today as your challenge.  That's plenty.  And just realize the brochos you've been given...four days of brochos.  Och, such a precious Yid.

Stay in touch.

  1daat, True I owe every single so much, I can never repay it, but right now I owe so much to you. The understanding you gave me, the acceptance truly overwhelms me.
  It"s funny its those small coments at the end that give the most chizuk. When I wrote I have a hard time putting on tfillin and the like, it was opening up a part of myself (albeit anonymously) that I"ve never let myself do before. Its scary. And you, with those words saying, I was there too, it just feels so good. Feels so good to be truly understood and accepted nonetheless.
  This morning I read your post. It gave me such chizuk I was singing. I went ahead and davened. Said more then I"ve said in davening by myself in a really long time. And, this afternoon after missing mincha in yeshiva, I davened myself. I DAVENED MYSELF! People don"t know what that means. After not davening with a minyan, I"m like a... failure. But, I got up anyway, and I davened myself.
  THANK YOU And may Hashem help that we keep on healing-all of us FOREVER  

  Hey guys, I moved to the honer wall (hopefully I"ll deserve the honar) but please don"t forget about me, and please hit me up over there 8)

I read your letter and I want you to know that I know very well what you feel like, and always always always failing no matter what I attempt. Your feelings are justified. Life is way too hard and hard to justify not giving into certain pleasures. Life is bad and a person needs to have something that makes them feel good, even if in a shallow way.

I've had life long depression, since I was very little I recognized these things. Being spiritual only makes the pain worse.

Write back if you'd like. Sorry I can't be encouraging. But at the same time I can't blame you or tell you that you're wrong for your feelings and thoughts of suicide. I'm frum on the outside (trying, struggling). I want to be frum but it's too hard to do correctly.

brent
capricorn_rising@hotmail.com

thank you for your understanding and your post i appreciate it!
  At the same time I am very sorry nah vnad but i'll have to disagree on much of what you are saying.
First off we are in quite a simuler situation with the depression so dont take anything personally. you write Nah vNad wrote on 07 Jan 2011 02:41:

  Why is hard not to justify not giving into certain pleasures? I agree, I fell, but I never was able to justify giving in to my temptations. I agree that life feels tough at times, but in what way can I justify my actions? What rite do I have to sin" just" because its tough? I don't get it!
  Again I quoteNah vNad wrote on 07 Jan 2011 02:41:

Again I don't understand. Tough- I agree after all the whole purpose of life is that it is tough, but bad? Bad is a big word. Bad means that all in all its bad. Its not worthwhile. I agree at times its so difficult I'm tempted to suicide, but this isnt a smart rational decision. Out of pain I want to jump, but not because it makes sense. You seem to believe that God heaven forbid did bad by putting us in this world! Do you really believe that?
  Again I quoteNah vNad wrote on 07 Jan 2011 02:41:

I agree being spiritual makes it worse, but that is only IF the spirituality doesnt bring a person to find the answers to his questions. Answers can be found! When you write you've recognized these things since you were little it seems that these questions have been bothering you for a long time. I feel your pain. Having pain without reason is almost impossible, but if you realize the good that WILL come out of it, its so much easier.
  I too had these questions once, but I've learned the answers and I can GUARANTEE  you that there is no question EVER that is a real question on God that cant be answered to the extent that it is no more question. It can be answered in this world. WE can understand it!
  Hey, if the questions so bother you I'd be more then happy to study the subject with you.
  I end off with saying that I truly feel your pain. I don't believe that there is ANY pain in the world that comes to the pain of depression. The pain is so great and therefor I am not sure if what you wrote is your pain talking, or your logical mind. Whatever the case please get bact to me with at least a response on this forum.
    Jewishfakr@ymail.com

I don't know you, but I also suffer from depression.  I feel your pain, I really do.  People without depression don't even know what it's like in our heads. BUT, at the same time, we both know that as Jews, we live for Hashem, and this is the challenge he gave us.  We must live with it. My dear brother, don't do anything to hurt yourself.  I suffer like you do, but I also believe that Hashem loves me, and no doubt he loves you.  I'm sorry you're in pain.

Just imagine and realize that even the little positive things you do are very precious to Hashem because he knows the obstacles you've overcome to accomplish them.  People without depression cannot claim such an awesome accomplishment.  You may feel worthless, but Hashem cherishes you.  May Hashem help us!