hello.  Just writing on this website albeit ananymously is a huge step for me considering that I have never told anyone about my problem.  It is my hope that just writing on this website will serve as a remedy although I tend to think that I will need real help.  I have been viewing pornography since eighth grade through highschool.  Admittedly there have been long stretches of time that I did not view, although there were also periods of time that I was really addicted in that I would view until late at night, be disfunctional the next day and repeat the cycle the following night.  I am currently learning in Yeshiva and during the zman I have no problems with pornography which is understandable considering the fact that I do not own a computer (I pride myself in that I have repeatedly refused offers from my parents to buy me a computer), but during bein hazmanim I find myself viewing at least once or twice.  Even though I feel really holy and everything during the zman when I come back somehow I cannot escape the claws of the yetzer hara.  Altghouh I only view a very limited number of times during bein hazmanim and neither for hours at a time, I am clearly addicted and after reading some of the "horror stories" on this website and others I became committed to stop before I marry and really ruin my life c"v.  I cannot become invovled in any long term thing because bein hazmanim is so short but I need advice how to control myself for next bein hazmanim.  After the zman I tell myself that I learned a lot of Torah and became close to Hashem and there is no way I am going to slip again even for one day, but lo and behold it always happens.  I question if I really should even consider myself a frum Jew.  I clearly don't have real yiras shomayim because "yira" means to see and if a person sees Hashem he is not going to do any aveira ever.  I walk around looking really frum, I have a lot of respect from my rebbeim and friends, and if anyone found out what I do and/or what I did I don't know who it would be worse for, me or him.  I sometimes ask myself what if I found out that a Rav or friend who I really respected for his yiras shomayim and frumkeit was viewing pornography.  What would I think?  Granted, it's happenned that "big" Rabbis were caught being involved in extremely inappropriate activities, but it has not happenned B"H to anyone I know.  I feel like the priest in the Scarlet Letter (hamevin yavin).  I need good advice.  Perhaps something I can work on during the zman (I've got a good four months before the next bein hazmanim), or some other good advice.  Much appreciated.

HI and WElcome!!!
so glad you're here. pull up a chair, make yourself comfortable. coffee?

reading through your post i came across the statement that you feel you must not have true Yir'as Shamayim since you cannot control this aspect of yourself.
one of the most amazing things i've learnt from this website is not to beat myself up about it.

sure if i felt the presence of Hashem strongly and powerfully leaning over my shoulder then etc etc i mean the way i see it we wouldn't do ANY aveirah ever if we felt like that on a constant basis. if you get what i mean...

personally i find it helpful to stop focusing so much on this issue it terms of it being an Aveirah.
if it just was an Aveirah, then like not eating pork or not being chutzpadik then we'd be able to manage it. self-control in everday aspects are a struggle and a challenge. but we are able to emerge victorious- i mean think about stuff you've set your Kochos to improving on in your personal Yidishkeit: hard but do-able, no?
this particular challenge is different. no matter how hard you've tried to hold out, Daven, promised yourself no....it doesn't seem to help. this is b/c different tactics are needed to deploy this particular Yetzer Hara bomb- and that's why this place is awesome. seriously awesome.
i've just started posting and hanging around here myself, and it's got everything i need to know, all the chizuk i'm looking for.

stick around?

Hey Buddy,
I'm new here myself and just mustered up the courage to start posting. Kol hakavod to you too! I think desperate teddybear is right. There's no reason to beat ourselves up. Do we beat ourselves up when we get the flu? It's the same thing. It's a particular kind of problem that we developed, but there are methods that can help cure us. If anything, we should be happy with ourselves for taking the initiative to make us better. How many people have problems and don't do anything about them? Buy we are doing something! We're here to grow together, and that's what we're going to do!

Hi smile4life, your post has many good points.

But the 'frum' part, well, the question is... not if you do things wrong... every one does... Hashem hides himself in Tevah, and gives us bechirah.... but if you commit to work on it to try to improve the situation for the better.

If you have a little time, please,  listen to this wonderful shiur:

www.guardureyes.com/GUE/Music/mus/ShiurYesodos.mp3

it may change your life!

How to work... start with the handbooks. A little at a time, EVERY day. Don't be embarrassed to be reading them... you are head and shoulders above most of klal Yisroel by working on this inyan. Also, make it kavua... chok v'lo yavar... the YH will quickly try to get you to stop.

Finally if you can get a friend / chavrusa  involved, you will be way ahead of the game... someone you can trust.  Trust me, he is struggling with this too, and will not be shocked... (assuming he is not a baal gava).
To work by yourself is really stacking the odds against yourself.  With a friend, you have a much better chance!

Hatzlacha!

Mazal Tov on willing to post about your struggle. This was veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery hard for me also and it helps sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much.

Here we believe that addiction is a disease not a lack of self control or a lack of yirah. It is something you do not have the tools to deal with at the moment. It might be beyon your bechira point but I don't want to go there.

Can you honestly say you would be able to stop if you really wanted to?

If the answer to this question is no then MAZAL TOV we can help you.

Join the 90 day chart to mark how long you have been clean
www.guardyoureyes.org/woh/signup.php

Read the handbooks
www.guardureyes.com/GUE/PDFs/eBooks/GuardYourEyes%20Handbook.pdf

www.guardureyes.com/GUE/PDFs/eBooks/GuardYourEyes%20Attitude.pdf


and post away.



One last thought, I think that many of us don't look at this struggle the way you do. We don't think it is about yiras shamiyim or building ourselves up. Rather it is about changing how we look at our selves in general and how we view this whole issue.

HATZLACHA RABBA

welcome to the club!

in the begining its hard to get youself to post but i  promise eventualy you will be addicted to it!!!!!

BTW have you considerd a filter?????

for me, the filter was the most importnat part to even getting me to start. before i had a filter, i would look at p*** until like 2 in the morning then go m******** and fall asleep wake up feeling horrible, go to mikvah get to davening late and everyone would look at me like i was such a holy person. now that i have a filter, i cant even access p***.
basically im trying to say that the filter is the most important part!

Thanks everyone for posting.  In terms of getting a filter, the computers I use are my parents and quite frankly, as arrogant and stupid as this sounds, I want to try my best not to get them involved unless it really goes too far.  My goal is that next bein hazmanim I will not view at all.  Once I already did it within the past couple weeks I can pretty much guarantee myself that I will not look at it again for at least a couple weeks later.  I think (feel free to correct me if I am wrong) that if I am able to control myself for one or two bein hazmanims then overcoming the yetzer hara should become a lot simpler after that.  When I have my own family I really do not want to have internet and believe me, if I did I'd install a filter before I'd install the internet. 
Also, I am still not so clear on this idea that Yiras Shamayim has nothing to do with it as Holy Yid wrote "Here we believe that addiction is a disease not a lack of self control or a lack of yirah".  What is wrong with taking this track?  Do you honestly believe that a person who has 100% yiras shamayim can still view pornography?  I respect and perhaps even agree with you that for most people the best way to fight this is to focus more on the addiction aspect rather than the aveira aspect, but to say that it has nothing to do with a lack of yirah seems rather immature :.  I apologize if I sound too harsh, but if a person can stop this because of fear of a person :-[ then if a person had real yiras shamayim certainly he'd be able to stop.  Btw, this really is a great site.  Great outlet.     

Oy, I wish Guard was here.... >

Anyway, your questions are good.. but there are good answers.
Basically, yes, of course, if we 'felt' in our bones that Hashem is watching us... we would not be nichshal. We would also be learning like crazy EVERY free second, we would eat just enough to keep us healthy, we would smile at everyone that passed by (men only, actually)... you get the idea.

So, to expect that you will conquer this one with Yiras shomayim alone, or, that you are expected at the tender age of 18 (just a guess ) to have this level of Yiras shomayim... sorry, it is not realistic.

Check the handbook where Guard quotes a Gemara where the Amora felt an urge to sin and quickly woke up the neighborhood so that he would not be alone... he did NOT medidate or even say krias shema etc....


When people here say it is a disease etc, that is refering to chronic abuse. At that stage, the person looses bechira pretty much, except to choose to avoid the nisayon altogether....

YOu likely are not up to that stage, but no matter... the tools that work for them will work for you...

Dear smile,

Welcome to GYE.

A quick thought.



The handbooks are extremely helpful.

SINCE YOU WONT HAVE REGULAR ACCESS TO THIS SITE.....
consider printing them out in a small font and hiding them in your wallet or something.
This way you can give yourself major chizuk during the zman.

hatzlocho.

Do you have a problem with Mast Hzl during the zman? Do you have friends? Do You obsess about girls during the zman?

smile4life l1ink=topic=2982.msg79306#msg79306 date=1285733671]
Thanks everyone for posting.  In terms of getting a filter, the computers I use are my parents and quite frankly,[u]1-[/u][b] as arrogant and stupid as this sounds, I want to try my best not to get them involved unless it really goes too far. [/b] My goal is that next bein hazmanim I will not view at all.  Once I already did it within the past couple weeks I can pretty much guarantee myself that I will not look at it again for at least a couple weeks later. [u] 2[/u][b]I think (feel free to correct me if I am wrong) that if I am able to control myself for one or two bein hazmanims then overcoming the yetzer hara should become a lot simpler after that. [/b] When I have my own family I really do not want to have internet and believe me, if I did I'd install a filter before I'd install the internet. 
Also, I am still not so clear on this idea that Yiras Shamayim has nothing to do with it as Holy Yid wrote wrote:
[/b]

1. You can ask your parents to put on a filter without saying why. Blame it on your Rosh Yeshiva, Rebbe, Rav etc. I always thought that talking about filters would be a giveaway that I look at p*** but I have talked about them with friends and family and NOTHING happened.  There is no reason to take chances like this and a filter will save you from allot of chances.

Do you have a good reason not to ask for filter?

2. I don't know your matzav but many people think they can stop but not only don't stop but also get worse. BTW what your are doing is assur and if you can stop it by getting a filter I would think you should consult a Rav about whether or not you have to put one on.

Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to think you can go at it on your own. Maybe you can but my experience is that the more support I have the better. I tired to fight it for many years but found that not fighting is a much better way. Getting a filter and support, being open and sharing was so much more effective that going at it on my own.

3. Regarding Yirah do you always say brachos with kavana or wake up for davening on time (btw the halacha is that you must wake up a half an hour before you start davening) what about learning should you not be learning when you look at p***.

Why not what about Yirah???????????????????????????????????????????????????


I don't mean to hurt you only to point out that people don't act only based on yirah. We sometimes need other approaches.

Is yirah working for you here?

Can you tell me you will NEVER do this again?

In no what happened to Yirah????????????????????????????????????????????????

Once again what do you think about Yirah?

4. I am glad it is a great help for me also.

To add on to Holyid's excellent post (#3) I don't really care if it's a lack of yiras shamayim or anything else. That's not important. What's important is stopping! Period. After you have stopped you can work on your yiras shamayim.

Truth is you will find that the 12 steps build your relationship with Hashem just like any mussar sefer.

Okay let's admit it - how many of us have said a bracha with the computer right in front of us?

And yet we know we do care about Hashem and mitzvos and doing what's right.

So what's going on? Somehow we've gotten desensitized. We know Hashem's right there and yet - somehow it doesn't stop us. Are we so wicked and arrogant - are we doing aveiros l'hachis - absolutely 100% for sure not. We're all sweet neshamales' here - but we have this black hole inside and a voice that insists that Mother Internet can provide us with all our needs. It never works, but we just don't see how else to fill that void - to heal that pain; or we're afraid of life, responsibility, true intimacy - whatever - and doping out into cybernumbness land takes the edge off it. It's not 'sinning', although of course it is. But it isn't, really. This is one of those things we each grasp in our own way.

Smile4life - it sounds like you're working hard to beat this - but don't underestimate the power of the dark side! When you get married and have you're own home, the YR will most probably find some reason for you to need a computer, and of course internet access - and the rest you can guess. A couple of clean bein hazmanims does'nt mean you're cured. This is something that goes quite deep. On the surface level we can install the filters and limit our access as much as possible, but to really get over it takes work. I definitely don't want to be discouraging. I'm just saying don't just measure it by the bein hazmanim's. You've tasted the forbidden fruit now - you need to be on guard.

Much much hatzlocho,

Aaron

I second arons words. It doesent matter whats going on today. The black whole sucked me in after i was married. When i was a bachur there wasnt any internet but my parents had sears catalogs(If you dont know what that is ask your zeide) every bain hazmanim i fell. After a while i beat it. The black hole was already there. DC says it diffrently you have a medecine in your cabinet that will take away your bu bus. One day you will hit a bump in life either in shalom bayis or in parnasa learning and you will run right back. I teach bochurim your age and i am imagining your disbelief. I was in exactly the same place as you at your age. During the zman i just learned. Came bain hazmanim and i would fall. Today i cant go a day without mast porn etc. I can act out and then say shiur. I can take a break  from preparing to act out. Once i even missed saying shiur to act out. The seed of destruction is already growing inside of you. One day it will be a forest. You must help yourself before you destroy your life.