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TOPIC: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 7048 Views

Re: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 06 Jul 2010 09:44 #73121

  • destructive cycle
I am prepared hot tea for my dear friend, halavey. Please visit soon before it turns cold. And being that you are a brittsiher, iced tea is like blasphemy. 

I would like to continue in my quotes of SA, white book. I strongly encourage everyone to get it and read it. There is lots of great insight in the book.  While I personally like to see my addiction as a porn/masturbation addiction and not a sex/lust addiction (which I hope to explain later on in my recovery process), the general guidelines of SA 12 steps still offer me great practical insight that I am able to implement my recovery process.

I began discussing above the concept of surrender, which as you may know is a hallmark in SA. It is a very confusing idea. I would like to share with you helpful ideas from the book itself, which gives directed guidance in dealing with porn/masturbation/lust/sex addiction (call it what want).

[quote="SA White Book Page 71]
We had it backwards; before, we always wanted the therapist, spouse, or God to do the stopping for us-to fix us. Now, we stop; and then, in our surrender, the power of God becomes effective in us. [/quote]
The first lesson in surrender is recognizing our power we Jews call, “bechira”. As stated above from page 26, “I didn't realize that the essence of being human is to have free choice”.G-d gave us the power to make decisions, choose right and act on it.  Until now, we didn’t realize we had the power to do so.  We believed (wanted to believe) that an external force would do it for us (be it G-d, a therapist, a spouse, etc). But we cannot recover until we recognize that our actions (can be) a result of our actions. (I write the phrase “can be” in parenthesis for a reason.  There is a subtlety in those words, which I will explain another time).  So where does G-d fit into this?  After we show we are serious, G-d kicks in with the help. This is what the unwritten, torah shbaal peh of AA/SA, refers to as let go let G-d.  First we need to do our part by “letting go” of our actions, and then and only then can we let G-d continue to carry us. But even at that point we do not expect G-d, to do the rest of the work for free. There must be a continued effort on our part.  The big book refers to this idea in passing, and vaguely uses the words “let go let G-d”, but not that exact phrase.  But the idea is that we are expected in doing our part of letting go first. 

A friend of mine once asked me, “What am I supposed to let go of?”  I answered him, “simple. You must let go of pornography and masturbation.”  He continued to ask me, “How do I do that? I can’t help it” I answered, “Then you have not recognized the essence of surrender” As they tell us in SA, we figure it out on our own.  He then asked me, “If it is that simple to let go, then why do I need all the 12 steps? Isn’t letting go recovery already?”  I laugh inside and explain politely, “Sobriety is only the prerequisite to recovery.  Understanding surrender will enable you to fully recovery, but it is not recovery. It gives you your first taste of freedom.”

I write about this from experience.  I saw in my own journey how by first surrendering, G-d did truly kick with help. In terms of why I fell after close to a year, is a story on its own, and I will hopefully address that. But, the brain (y”h, call it what you like, it makes no difference)  likes to focus on the negatives. If I focus on why I fell too much, it may get me depressed. So, for now I am focused on how I successfully grew last time. I can do it again, and I can do it better.  Having a positive attitude is key for recovery.     
Last Edit: 07 Jul 2010 05:21 by .

Re: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 06 Jul 2010 09:45 #73122

  • destructive cycle
[quote="SA White Book Page 73]
The first time we walk through the stress of withdrawal without resorting to the drug, we discover that we don't die without that fix. Instead, we feel better, stronger, that maybe there's hope. [/quote]
This is it. Surrender begins to kick in.  We did it once, we can do it twice.  The white book continues to explain how after each success we prove to ourselves that surrender is possible.  We are flexing our muscles of surrender. This makes us stronger and provides that hope.
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Re: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 06 Jul 2010 09:45 #73123

  • destructive cycle
[quote="SA White Book Page 74]
Again, it's the change of attitude that brings relief. Instead of, "I've got to have it or I'll die!" our attitude becomes, "I give up; I'm willing not to have it, even if I do die." [/quote]
[quote="SA White Book Page 61]
So, we used sex or lust or relationships to satisfy this drive, letting them take the place of God as source of our lives. Idolatry. [/quote]

The attitude shift is another hallmark in recovery for SA 12 steps.  The idea is to focus on the thoughts that lead to our actions, which is what is now referred to as CBT (cognitive behavior therapy). We understand that our thoughts and attitudes is what leads us to do certain things. If we believe "I've got to have it or I'll die!", then we will have it and grab it no matter what.  But if our thoughts say, “"I give up; I'm willing not to have it, even if I do die."”, then we give up on it. We surrender it.  It is not about fighting the thoughts. It is about making a mental and verbal decision to not engage in that activity.  We need to change the false thought process that goes on in our brain. We need an “attitude shift”.

The question is how do we do that? In the heat of  moment, we lose focus on the purpose of life, the purpose of sobriety.  We can think of nothing but PORN.  Porn becomes our idol, our god.  (These SA guys were mechavein to chazal, shabbos 105b, who say that one who listens to his yetzer hara is like an idol worshipper, this is how the maharal in nesiv hayetzer explains it).

The answer is we can’t wait until the heat of the moment.  Now is the time to act. Now is the time to internalize the danger and stupidity of porn.  Now is the time to reinforce the goal of sobriety. 
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Re: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 06 Jul 2010 09:46 #73124

  • destructive cycle
[quote="SA White Book Page 75]
We come to see that it's all right to be tempted and feel absolutely powerless over it as long as we can get the power to overcome. The fear of our vulnerability gradually diminishes as we stay sober and work the Steps. We can look forward to the time when the obsession-not temptations-will be gone. [/quote]
This for me is so special. I often get down when I have bad thoughts. And we need to reinforce to ourselves that our control of action is where we need to put our focus (albeit by the attitude shift, mentioned above). We have to believe that we have the power to overcome. This is the G-d’s gift to humanity known as bechira.
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Re: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 06 Jul 2010 09:56 #73125

  • Haleivi76
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Any chance of some cucumber sandwiches with that Tea - I really fancy a cuppa right now!!

DC, I want you to know that your thread is probably the most helpful and informative I have seen on here. So much to read and think about.

Many good tips on how to handle this as well.

SH'koiach!
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Re: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 07 Jul 2010 05:21 #73249

  • destructive cycle
Oh right my friends, today begins day 6. Wish me luck.

I would like to share a few quotes regarding relapse, which is a topic close to home:

[quote="SA White Book, page 28]
After a year and a half without acting out the old sexual compulsion, I fell. I was casually glancing through a newsmagazine and lingered too long on a revealing photograph. By the third look, I had taken the first "drink"-the lust look-and what the alcoholics said would happen, happened. The first drink got me drunk. Within a matter of hours I was out on the streets again, having lost control, trying desperately to score.[/quote]


[quote="SA White Book, page 63]
Every time we "go back out there"-our way of saying we have resorted to our addiction once again-we set in motion these same self-destructive processes. We start another countdown that leads to an end that progressively worsens. There's no way we can avoid restarting the self-destruct mechanism, and no knowing when we will reach that point of no return.
[/quote]

The quotes speak for themselves. I do not have the time to comment on them with my own reflection.  But for me these are very real experiences.

Thanks for joining me.

-DC
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Re: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 08 Jul 2010 22:14 #73453

  • destructive cycle
1.15 AM here in Israel. Will be going to sleep soon.
Just wanted to report in that I have completed one week clean. B"H, I am out of the addictive behavior and I really do not plan to go back.  I make firm commitments every day to stay clean. I have been reading the SA White book, which I shared with you above. 
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Re: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 14 Jul 2010 10:10 #73956

  • destructive cycle
Has anyone here been to SA in Israel.  I am looking for a good group. I have heard of people having bad experiences here. 
Please, any info would be helpful.
Thanks,
DC

p.s I have been doing really poorly.  I got a number of a therapist, and when I get the guts I will call. Will post later. Gotta go
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Re: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 14 Jul 2010 13:37 #73967

  • Haleivi76
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DC,

sorry you have been having such a tough time. I feel that I have neglected you somewhat and I apologise. Please PM me if you want to talk privately.

So much about making this work is about bravery.

Bravery to admit you have a problem in the first place, bravery to decide to do something about it, bravery to admit you have a problem to others, etc.

It will take another brave step for you to call the therapist or to attend an SA meeting, but I'm sure once you take the leap, you'll be glad you did. You owe it to yourself to at least try.

Know that I and all your friends on GYE are rooting for you and praying as well.

May H" give you the koiach,

Kol tuv

Haleivi
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Re: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 14 Jul 2010 20:50 #74059

  • jooboy
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A guy in my SA group is now sober 3 years and got his start in SA in Israel - yerushalayim I think.  If you send me an email address I can try and pass it on to him to get in touch with you.
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Re: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 19 Jul 2010 07:38 #74696

  • destructive cycle
Thank you Halavey for the chizuk

jooboy,
Thanks for the contact. Please send info to destructive.cycle@gmail.com. I will PM you as well.

Sorry for neglecting this thread.  I keep falling over and over again.  And I was too ashamed to come back and report the negative.

I have been so numb lately. Nothing seems to bother me anymore.  I feel no guilt or remorse.  I have hit a dangerous place.  Everytime G-d sends me the hirhurei teshuvah, I chase them away. 

And as I read Eicha, to try to rev up some emotion all I could think about is:

                                                                            מאיגרא רמא לבירא עמיקתא

that;'s my situation.  And I am bleeding bad.

Once again,
if anyone knows any info about SA groups in israel it would be greatly helpful.  If anyone on this forum attended one of these groups, even better.  Please share any info you need.
Last Edit: 19 Jul 2010 07:39 by .

Re: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 19 Jul 2010 12:16 #74708

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Here is the number for SA in Israel to find out about meetings. 02-676-9583

I will try to get you a contact of someone who went to them.
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Re: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 21 Jul 2010 12:39 #74992

  • destructive cycle
Thanks jooboy.

I called the number, but it is no longer in service.

If you or anyone else have another number for me to contact, it would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
dc
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Re: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 26 Jul 2010 10:22 #75354

  • Haleivi76
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DC,

Been thinking about you buddy - how are things?

I notice you have been having some trouble finding an SA group in Israel. I can't help on that I'm afraid, but wondered if there was anything I can do?

Please feel free to PM me at any time if you want to talk some stuff through.

Take care and warmest wishes,

Haleivi
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Re: And the wheels keep turning, it just keeps coming back... 26 Jul 2010 14:49 #75362

  • destructive cycle
Thanks Halavey for caring.

I am literally drowning in this addiction.  I think relapse was worse than life before recovery.  I have mentally given up. As crazy as that sounds.  I have become a totally different person.  My wife complains all the time she wants the old me back.  I do not know what happened to me.  I desire nothing but porn.  I have come to the point where I crave porn during davening (when I daven) and learning (when I learn), r"l.  I enjoy porn more than being with my wife (which is so infrequent anyway). I have learned that porn is the way to deal with all my problems.  Now that they taught me that, I turn to porn for every problem. And she is always so welcoming. I lost all sense of guilt. I need to let you in on the secret that six months ago, I was flying high in recovery.  Going back to porn was out of the question.  I was firmly committed to staying sober. And here I am - in the sewage, drinking its waters and enjoying it (see Ramban in parshas shelach by the slav, that's what I feel like). Oy, I am sick.  I must be insane. 
My shalom bayis plummeted like crazy. And six months ago things were so good.  When I asked my wife if she loves me, she responds that she does not know.  She feels weird even touching me (I don't mean sexually) because she is so distant from  me. And all I can think about is (to myself) is : well I don't really need you for my emotional needs anymore, I now have a new friend who loves me so much. She will tend to all my needs. She responds to my requests. And there is always so much excitement. internet porn is no longer my enemy. I have found comfort and friendship in the internet. And now the worst of worst. I have already toyed with the idea of meeting up with live women.  I have toyed with the idea of leaving my wife.  (Oy, the shame and embarrassment of these feelings.  But I need to be honest in my report. I know the guys on this site don't like the words guild/shame/feeling bad, whatever.  But for me, it is my only link to normalcy.  Rabbi Twerski says that I person without guilt/shame is like someone without pain the sensors to let him know that something is wrong. ) 

In short, I feel like I am waging an open rebellion on myself.  I have all the answers. I know all the tools for breaking free. But I simply do not want to.  So it seems. 

How did this happen to me?  How? How? Perhaps I will share with you one day how one can get themselves into this so that you all do not repeat my steps.

So that's my situation for now.  Rav Nachman writes that a sometimes a yid needs chutzpah to get himself out of the hole of sin.  We feel so deep that we mentally tell her ourselves that we are never worthy to make it back.  It would be chutzpah to try to fix our ways and do teshuvah.  But in the end Hashem will always take us back.  Makes sense or not. 

Ayn Hadavar Talui eleh Bi- The matter is in my hands. G-d sends the helicopter.  I need to jump on if I want to be saved.

I did it once and I can do it again.  I need courage.  I will need to relearn all the healthy ways of dealing with R.I.D.

Please continue giving me support.  Deep down I know I can do it. Now it is time to act.

Wishing you all a wonderful Tu B'Av.
-DC
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