I'm nineteen and got introduced to this schmutz when i was 8 or 9. I was caught by mother and father the second time i used the internet to browse p**n. The things my mother said to me then made me feel like I was subhuman. I have been caught repeatedly by my parents and every time i would feel like i was some wretched creature that didn't belong amongst humans. This led to repeated depression which led to... . I know my mother doesn't do it intentionally but now it's engrained in my daily process. Every time i act out I get more depressed because of numerous reasons but most importantly because I'm not part of the human race. Finally this pesach i spoke to my father and he suggested this site, as well as joining a group and/or seeing a specialist. After reading different articles on here i realized that I might not be different, there are other people with this struggle as well, and what they teach you in yeshiva is not going to help. So now i left yeshiva early with the intention of dealing with this issue before it becomes an interpersonal problem, which it had already started to become. This was three weeks ago. Now I dont get so depressed anymore, but I think it has become worse. Because I can act out and throw away the issue because it's not a failure of mine but rather what Hashem did to me. So obviously I'm prepared and willing to deal with it but it has lost the urgency because my its going to happen...eventually. WRONG mindset but I cant help it. HELP.

I also have ADD which doesn't help except add to the subhuman feeling.

I have a lot more to say and maybe we can bring it up through more discussion. This is what comes to mind now as my introduction.

Welcome Mac,

Your change in mindset is not uncommon. In fact, most if not all poeple here have it. It is not necesserally a bad thing for an addict. For a normal person who does a sin, he should have huge charata for it and do as much teshiva as he can. But we are addicts. We regret what we do., but our reactions to it are different because we dont have as much control over it as other people do. You should have Charata, but not the depressing type (as a matter of fact noone should have that type its just plain unhealthy). But its important to not get down on yourself for falling becasue that will bring you down lower. Granted that's easier said thatn doen, but its something we need to work on. I highly suggest you listen to this 4.5 minute clip of Rabbi Reisman on this topic. Here's this link: www.guardureyes.com/GUE/Music/mus/depressed.mp3

Hatzlocha brother and stay aboard with us we need you just as much as you need us.

-Yiddle

As it comes to me. Another problem is that now that i'm home with the intention of working on this. I have a lot of free time (unfortunately). And finding chavrusas really isn't working out. So i'm getting depressed because I feel maybe at this present moment i'm giving up more than i could potentially gain at this stage.

But again like i said it's not so much the depression that affects me now. Now if i'm tired i'll do it, if i'm bored i'll do it, if i tried to call someone to talk but he didn't answer i'll do it and i'm indifferent. HELP. Obviously the answer is to distract myself with other things but i'm just too lazy play my musical instrument, i dont have enough time to bike etc. and unfortunately i don't have that great of a head to learn by myself.

Maccabee wrote on 12 May 2010 04:17:


Of course I dont know you personally, but I bet you could do all these things. This might be the depression/Yetzer Hara/whatever you want to call it, telling you you cant do these things. You know you can. I tell people to do an excersize when it comes to this stuff and it generally has worked. After you say you cant do something, Stop. Literally call timeout. Make it like your in the TV shows where the world stops for everyone except for that one person snd look into the situation as if it were someone else saying it. The decide if its really true or not. You will find that most of the time you were wrong. This excersize can apply to Anything.

-Yiddle

Any suggestions on "activating" that thought process bshas maaseh and not immediately after?

Practice it alot. Do it for everything. After all the mesillas yesharim says we need to do it. Its a mini cheshbin hanefesh. But if you do it for everything your mind will learn to depend on it, just like an addiction!

I'm gonna utilize that advice right now and go to bed so I can have a normal day tomorrow. Thanks Yid. See you here tomorrow if Moshiach doesn't come by then. If he does then in Yerushalayim.

Welcome, Reb Macabee! First of all, I love your username! You're part of a group of people fighting back against the superficial, joining the quest for holiness. Discovering the true, internal, everlasting worth of ourselves.

Can I ask why you had to leave yeshiva to deal with this issue?

I would definitely recommend that feeling accomplished in the rest of your life is a major part of any move forward. Working, exercise, college, learning - feeling like you're moving forward, living life, is essential.

Another key to remember is that yes - the fact that this is difficult can be called an "addiction." And you can't help your condition. But you CAN decide what to do about it. You can decide whether or not you want to be clean. And all this means that you're SUPERhuman. You're facing that choice right now, and minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day, you can make the choice to stay clean. You CAN!

I also recommend finding other activities you can go do, even on short notice - read a book, anything.

Can I ask what instrument you play?

Riding a bike doesn't have to be for a long time...and why don't you have enough time? I thought you said that you have a lot of free time?

Welcome Maccabee!

I agree with SB, nice name!

Sounds like you really do want to work on this,
but your y"h is scared of seeing that happen.
I mean, you might even be successful!

I think Yiddle gives good advice.
Hope to hear how well your day is going.
Keep on posting and asking questions.
You're off to a great start here!

hi Macc..

welcome!

ok - first lets put somethigns in perspective...
ADD - HURRAY ! that means you are able to see things others cannot... Thomas Edison woudl have been classified as ADD... he was thrown out of school in teh 4th grade for his inability to consentrate.

so good - you are already a step ahead.

re: this subhumna thing..

do you believe your mother LOVES  you??

if YES - do you believe your mother loves sub human creatures
if NO - then this a problem in itself... perhaps try asking her if she loves you.

MIght also try talking to mom - and being very candid and frank explain p*** is an addiction like any other addiction ... it is an illness, and when she talks to you the way she does it makes you FEEL like you are sub-human (moms' love ot hear teh words FEEL  and LOVE)

explain you are working on recovery - and even though you might be able to do it alone, it will make it much easier and more meanignful if you knew she was there with you - rather than being agianst you.

tell her you LOVE her...and are looking forward to getting through this thing... and hope she can be ther e with you.

its time to start being HONEST... with yourself with your family

and stop stuffing your feelings down...


beyond that there are a lot ogf great guys here... and some wonderful programs, charting, etc to help you along the way



dov in Israel

PS - no sign of Moschiach here, yet...we are still waiting. If I hear anythign I will bli neder let you know.

Dear Macabee,

I am the admin of this forum. Welcome to our community!

One of our goals on GYE is to help people "hit bottom while still on top" so they will take recovery seriously. To explain better what I mean, please see this page. If you're here, you're already taking serious steps in recovery, so keep up the good work!

Scientific studies have shown that it takes 90 days to change a neural thought pattern that was ingrained in the brain through addictive behaviors. Did you join the 90 day chart on-line? Sign up over here...

Make sure to install a strong filter. It will be almost impossible to break free of this while having all the garbage within a mouse click away. See this page for one good filter option, along with instructions on how to install it best - and give away the password to our "filter Gabai"... See this page for another 20 (or so) filter ideas and information...

We get cries for help every day, by e-mail and on the forum. Tzuras Rabim Chatzi Nechama    And that is why we created the GYE handbooks (links below). If you read them well, from beginning to end, slowly, and try to implement what you read, you will find the answers within them to enable you to completely turn your life around. You're worth it.

Also, join the daily Chizuk e-mail lists to get fresh chizuk every day, and post away on this forum. You will get tons of daily Chizuk and support. This disease can't be beat alone. It works best when you get out of isolation!

GuardYourEyes also offers various free anonymous phone conferences, where you can join a group of other frum Yidden, along with an experienced sponsor. See this page for four different options. Our conferences are taking place daily, throughout the week... This would be a tremendous step in the right direction for you and help you learn freedom from this addiction. Not only will you learn the secret of the 12-Steps - which is known to be the world's most powerful program for beating addiction having helped millions world wide, but joining the group will be another way of GETTING OUT OF ISOLATION and connecting with others who are going through what you are.

Let me tell you a little about the two GuardYourEyes handbooks. They lay down the cornerstone and foundation of our work, and they make our network much more effective and helpful for people.

You see, until now, people would often get "lost" when coming to our website, not knowing what tips and techniques to try. For example, a beginner wouldn't jump straight into therapy or 12-Step groups, while on the other hand, someone whose addiction was more advanced wouldn't be helped by the standard tips of "making fences" putting in "filters" etc... So it was essential to develop a handbook which details all the techniques and tools to dealing with this addiction in progressive order. Now with these handbooks, anyone can read through and see what steps they've tried already, and if those steps haven't worked, they can continue on through the handbook where the steps become progressively more powerful and "addiction-oriented".

And the second handbook, called the "Attitude" handbook, can also help anyone, no matter what level of addiction they may have. Often people write in to us saying that had they only known the proper outlook & attitude that we try and share on the GuardYourEyes network when they were younger, they would have never fallen into an addiction in the first place! So we hope that through this handbook, many addictions will be prevented.

The handbooks are PDF files, set up as eBooks, and they have bookmarks and hyper-links in the Index, to make them easy to navigate.

Note: You might want to print them out to read away from the computer. Keep in mind though, that if you do this, you won't be able to click on the many web links in the articles. But you can always come back to them later. The truth is, it's anyway good to go through the whole handbook once without clicking on links, just to get an overview of all the tools available. Once you did that, you can start again from tool #1 and read each tool through more carefully, click the links and study each technique and assess whether you have tried it fully yet or not...

Right click on the links below and select "Save Link/Target As" to download the handbooks to your computer.

1) The GuardYourEyes Handbook
This Handbook details 18 suggested tools and techniques, in progressive order, beginning with the most basic and fundamental approaches to dealing with this addiction, and continuing down through increasingly earnest and powerful methods. For the first time, we can gauge our level of addiction and find the appropriate tools for our particular situation. And no matter what level our addiction may have advanced to, we will be able to find the right tools to break free in this handbook!

2) The GuardYourEyes Attitude
The Attitude Handbook details 30 basic principles to help us maintain the proper attitude and perspective on this struggle. Here are some examples: Understanding what we are up against, what it is that Hashem wants from us, how we can use this struggle for tremendous growth, how we can deal with bad thoughts, discovering how to redirect the power of our souls, understanding that every little bit counts, learning how to bounce back up after a fall, and so on and so forth...

May Hashem be with you!

By the way - do you have a positive relationship with a rebbe, or some kid of mentor?

You mentioned that your relationship with your mother hasn't been very good - do you have a good relationship with your father?

@SB:
1) I left yeshiva because I felt that at home i would be able a lot more attention to dealing with the issue besides the fact that the longer i pushed it off and stayed in yeshiva the more the problems would build up. As i'm sure most of you know (or maybe not) the more you just use pure abstinence without someone to talk to or anything to ease the struggle at its peak just leads to a stronger rebound. I was close to going to internet cafes and once spent most of a friday night (11PM-3AM) walking around the city looking in peoples windows looking for a "hit." Sick i know. And it killed me for the next week.

2) I play an instrument that requires an incredible amount of physical effort. Much more than just plucking strings. I'm considering picking up guitar though.

3) I'm talking about a situation when for example I have to be somewhere in fifteen minutes. I can't walk or bike there but I'm waiting for someone to bring a car for me to take.

@sturggle:
I messed up today when i gave myself half an hour to bring stuff to the dry cleaners but then decided I could do it in fifteen minutes, and then decided I could do it tomorrow...etc.

Hey Mac,

How was that excersize I told you to do last night? Was it effective?

-Yiddle