Rage ATM wrote on 10 May 2010 12:31:


Rage, as a lawyer, you should know better  ... If these guys aren't interested in getting it, they could "sue" us for sending unsolicited spam, or for signing them up against their will, no? (And then we'd have to claim someone else did it, without our knowledge). ConstantContact might even block my account if they get enough complaints like that from people. We have to be careful.

strugglingyid wrote on 10 May 2010 07:05:


Have her listen to this shiur with you: www.guardureyes.com/GUE/stuff/RVienerSummer09.mp3

Forgive me if I keep returning to whether your "father's ethics" are involved. Which is my way of saying, Pirkei Avos. Which is my way of saying, "Acquire for yourSELF a Rav."

In my town, more than a couple of rabbeim have written their members about this issue. This includes their bulk emails saying that filters are important, GYE.org is good, etc.  WOULD YOUR FAMILY'S RAV BE OPEN TO THIS? Maybe,

"Dear Rav X, here's my situation. It's real, it hurts. It would mean SO MUCH to me if you emailed the whole shul with what a chilul H' this is. And what to do about it (gye, etc). Mention that a child of the shul approached you. Don't sugar-coat it -- say p*rnography, even mast*n. And, here are the fake email addresses of 7 members of this shul. If you send it directly to those boxes, perhaps they'll see what's up."

Whether or not you do this directly or anonymously would be up to you.

I haven't thought this through, and I'm not (yet) suggesting it's a good idea. I'm just putting it out so you see that you're not stuck with Nowhere To Turn.

Hang in There.

Wow ! What a topic ! Great replies, everyone. But aren't we all forgetting something ? If they start reading GYE, then they'll come upon this thread and figure out how it all started. So here's what I recommend.

nowhere to turn,
You have the ability to edit your original posting, just go to it and click on the "modify" link. You're allowed to lie for Shalom Bayis. So you're not learning in (deleted) anymore. Instead, you're learning in the top yeshiva in Topeka, Kansas.  You don't have to use my words, just change some details in your posting. Be creative. Like while your dad was reading his email your dog Toto  :D bit his foot and when he left the room to bandage it you saw his open email on the screen. Then I'll edit this posting too.

Commando (I lie too sometimes, I'm not really a real commando) 

Sticky,

I'm new here...but I would strongly suggest speaking to your Rov. When I was a child, I found that my father was shaving with a razor. I didn't know what to do, so I spoke to the Rov...the next time I came to visit my father (my parents were divorced and we lived in a different city), he had a beard. It helps. Stay strong, young man. You are loved.

Y

I second Guard on this - some people don't like the idea of GYE. We're lucky enough to be able to open our eyes, but for people who don't want to, they see it as a bunch of self-righteous people. Couldn't be further from the truth, in my experience, but for someone who wants to keep doing the wrong thing, anyone who's trying to be good is going to make him feel like he's being judged.

So you've gotta be careful with that.

wow, so many posts, here are my thoughts.

Firstly do not go into his email address any more or check what he has been looking at for the following reasons:
1)He is your father, and you do have the mitzva of kibbud av, the more you see what hes been up to..the harder honouring him will be..trust me.
2)Although you are amazingly working on yourself so hard, seeing someone else, especially someone you respect fall like this, will subconsiously help you mattir it on some level you might not realise, to yourself. Its like amalek, they cooled the waters down, it does really, make it even a drop easier for you to fall
3) As someone mentioned, you will want to check out what he is looking at, to see how bad it is, which will lead you to all the innapropriate sight, or at least to triggers.

Another thought, DO NOT cancel their email address, a group of people from a shul who all know each other, and still not embarrassed to send porn to each other, means that if you do that, they will just open new ones and carry on, its not as if they are so embarrassed about what they are doing when they are sharing with people they know well.

My solution, and again....who am I?

Let GYE send them the anonymous e mail, that way you have done your histadlus, who knows it might even lead to some of them changing, and will freak them out a bit, they will probably think one of the group felt a bit guilty and set it up.

Speak to a rabbi, for helping you personally, and helping you deal with your father issuesas well.

good luck man

ps one further thought, it may be beneficial although prob not advisable to speak to your father with regard to your issues, very innocently, maybe he will help you which will help him, such as filters etc....

h - welcome!

I'd like to approach this from a  different angle.

Viruses - specifically malware have become vicious!!!
They have been know to get into your computer and use your computer as a hub for transfering illegal p***.

and in order to cover its trail it uses your own address book as a list of names ... in other words if you squeel on teh virus , you wind up bringing yourself  down too

nice, huh?

welcome to Satan's world!

so what to do?
firstly - you are not responsible for your father any more than you would be responsible for your non-frum cousin twice removed not keeping Shabbas.

you could talk to the  Rav about your own problem - and mention GYE and how helpful it has beeen, and perhaps the Rav can give a plug to GYE for otehr memebers who are having similar problems in the community (you know like let them become the role-model comgregation setting the pace - )

you could talk to your dada - mention some of hte other boys have been discussing on line p*** and the need for a filter - and suggest you get on your computer too

create an anomous email account and send your dad a spam mail stating that his  IP address and computer have been flagged for potential illegal downloads.

Have guard send your dad a request for tzeddak...maybe he'll check out hte GYE site and realize he needs help and is suffering as much as you .

Now that you know that you're safely among friends (look at all these replies to your posting !), I'd like to add a drop of loving mussar about something that has nothing at all to do with lust. You said "I also noticed a secret email address that he has, so i put my hacking skills to work, and got the password from a free keylogging program." I know your intentions were for the good, but it sounds like you're crossing a dangerous moral line here. Everyone is entitled to a measure of privacy - dads, moms, brothers, sisters. The way I understand it, in the gemora not respecting people's privacy ("Hezek Re'iah") is like stealing. I know there's a tendency among many people to say "the ends justify the means" and "as long as we aren't caught it's okay". I'm guilty of this too sometimes, but I try to be an "ehrlich" person. Your Dad's private life is his alone, and you can't judge him. There are men who got into this addiction because years ago Viagra wasn't available and they figured they needed porn to help them do the mitzva of Ona'ah. We can't judge anyone. All we can do is work on ourselves. It sounds like you're on a great path to this goal, and welcome again to this forum ! I'm looking forward to seeing your postings in the future.

nowhere to turn wrote on 10 May 2010 02:11:

Can the rov of your shule or someone in your yeshiva consul you?

guardureyes wrote on 10 May 2010 12:43:


Maybe he can forward them from a gmail address, so it would be understood that someone is sending them as a "gift".

However, after reading  some other posts, I am a little skeptical of this.

Guard -

this could be your million dollar campaign


teenage booy looking into the room, with a tear on his cheek - in the background a man sititng watching p**..

with a caption:  GUARD YOUR EYES...Because P*** Effects Everyone !

There is a young Rav in Monsey who speaks about using filters and is very aware of the problems of today. Not sure how to contact him,but his name is Rav Viner. Maybe he has some ideas how do deal with this situation.  Bracho V'Hatzlocho!

Chazak wrote on 11 May 2010 04:26:


Dear "Bochur from top yeshiva in Topeka",

I do believe that this problem can actually be inherited, as alcoholism clearly is. It is often also a family disease, as it certainly is in your case. Your mother is suffering from tolerance of a sick man - and as Briut pointed out, you do not have any idea what is really going on between them about this - but I doubt it is marital bliss for either party. Any loving son would want to help, and I commend you for your bravery thus far!

Incidentally, I always thought that my best hope was that I'd be buried with my secrets after a long, fake life - that I'd actually get sober never entered my dreams. Nu. At least your father has one less secret he'll die with, whether he realizes it or not. It sounds pathetic, but my old addict self would have deeply envied him.

Daven to Hashem very simply and explicitly for your fathers benefit at least in each of the three daily tefillos. It may or may not help your father, but I tell you that it will help you gain a deeper acceptance of the situation and more acceptance of the pathetic nature of your own lust dependence. Maybe this is all Hashem's plan for you to gain the awareness and help that you will need to get free of your own problems and actually has little if anything to do with your father getting better.

I think it is a bit much for a son to confront his father about his aveiros...but to judge whether anyone else is an addict and is ill, well, that's a bit much for anyone. I also think it is not healthy for you to nose around in your fathers business. If he is stupid and wants to have fun with porn, that is his choice. He is an adult and will have to pay the price, whatever it may be. All you can do is admit your problem to him. Your admitting his problem to him is probably useless and damaging. If you love him, then clean your side of the street and mind your own business, for G-d's sake. 

BTW, cleaning your side of the street has nothing whatsoever to do with being a kodosh, and showing him kedusha will do nothing. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he feels that he is a bit of a kodosh, right now! The mind works in funny ways.

Finally, with all very due respect to Chazak: How do you know that the Rov of his shul (or the rebbe in his yeshiva) is not one of the guys his father is sharing the porn with? Addicts come in all shapes and sizes, my friend.

Of course, I'm not saying to trust no rabbi/rebbi, c"v. But this problem, like drinking or using drugs, has nothing to do with whether the person is a talmid Chochom, Rov, good man, or whatever. It's a compulsion that goes way beyond bechirah and often  has roots that grew long before anyone's gadlus in learning began. So you may want to consider backing off on giving a plumbeh to any man just because he is the rov of your shul.  Sorry. 

Choose your da'as Torah the best way you can: by your heart - who do you really trust - not by a sign on the door. And please consider focusing on your own recovery so that your children will not have to catch you one day.

Much love,

Dov

WOW- every time i am on this site i feel like screaming this place is amazing.

Where would we turn if GUE was not here???? 

YOu guys respond with  intelligent, intellectual, practical advice.  What a group!