If I were your son, I would just want a hug and you to say, that it will be ok. That the world is open. Hey a thousand times is never enough.

I will never forget the times dad and me went to see speedway (the only time that i saw speedway) or the time we went hiking together. He never talked much. He had a bit of an alcohol problem, but he always treated us kids with respect. I love my father inspite of his mistakes, though he did not talk about it. I never wanted to talk about his mistakes, I wanted his unconditional love, and also his views on my actions.

Does this make any sense?

Hell, you know, I would also like to see my father now and take him to dinner. Never had a chance too or maybe I just didn't take it. Maybe when I am in NY we can meet (I not from America) and I can buy you dinner, cos you seem like a real father, just like my father, like someone who cares.

May the Father of all fathers guide you.

My wife and I like the approach of the Kirk, on his website called Celebrate Calm. He empowers both parents and children and focuses on teaching all parties responsibilty for themselves. It may not be easy but we see that the failing way is how we got here with our oldest son, so we have nothing to lose. We love his approach, actually. 

May you and your wife be zocheh to say "we" this and "we" that, a lot more. Difficulty with our son was one of the strongest cataysts that brought my wife and I together. We didn;t even realize how much we were on different pages! We were advised to huddle about every little response to our sone so we'd never give him divergent and confusing messages - or a way to play one of us against the other. These little kiddies become very mainuplative from a young age, and carry it into their teens and beyond.

Love you very much, fellow struggling parent!

Dov

Hello again  ....

Thank you all so much for your responses; I apologize for not responding individually.

I am going to try to avoid criticism this weekend, though I am sending him the message that being suspended means that this is not a vacation SHabbos, and he needs to study, come to shul etc.  How effective will that be?  So far only somewhat. 

Given that as a Rabbi I work on Shabbos, I have to steal some time here or there to deal with him.      So far today I walk him at 7:15, and he left for shul at 10 and hasn't been heard from since.  Probably went to a movie.  ???

It is so difficult to figure out how to reach him without making him feel overly restricted and resentful . . and yet making him understand that there are consequences to his actions or the lack thereof.

I so wish that he could hear the sincerity of you folks, be inspired by Duvid Chaim like we are, and have a more positive feeling for the role of הקב"ה in his life....but it is so hard to get through his defenses.

Ah well, I guess I certainly gave my parents a run for their money as well.

Have a great Shabbos everyone

Shmendrick

yehoshua wrote on 03 Jun 2010 10:19:


Somehow these words brought me to tears.

I not only feel them myself (as a son, and MAYBE, I try, on occasion as a father). More to the point, I've heard them from Rabbi Yaakov Horowitz (Monsey) in his parenting work on what's called kids at risk. (We all hate the label, I hope.)

If Rabbi Horowitz had been my father, or my father's rebbe, or rebbe of my father's rebbe who once taught him even three words of Torah... then my father would have been able to provide that rock of unconditional support and concern that is the bedrock of any young man's recovery. Check out his book, tapes, online stuff, anything. He's got it down, as a former kid who was there himself.

Nobody ever got much of anything with hate. The answer has got to be love. Somehow. More specific, I cannot fathom. But I can try. And so should you, Rav Abba. Buy him a laffy taffy like he got when he felt young and loved. Something. Try.

Good Shabbos.

Thanks for your words, Briut, and I will try to take them to heart and put them into action today.

  I can understand how you are trying to  being careful not to rock the boat. But, it could be that your calling him, being in contact with him, will in fact show him that you care. Of course this depends on what you say, but if you call him through out the day to just "touch base", and/or "wondering if you are o.k.", etc, this may in fact show him that you ARE there to help him. This will begin to build that foundation of stability that he needs so badly so that he will be able to "come back home".

Hi Shmendrik,

I've just got up to date with the thread...

I am utterly unqualified to offer any advice - not that you were asking for it. The relationship with my own father a"h was complicated, but very, very different. Also, my son is still very young. But I can (and will) root for you and and daven for you.

This is my hug to you [hug]. We should all feel a lot of love and a lot of hugs from each other.

Hatzlocha raba. Hope, in a little while, you'll be able to look back and see how this was all Hashem's chessed to you all along.

Hugs.

NotGivingUpYetOldBean!

Rabbi Shmendrick! just peeked back into your thread, i really feel for you as i have been a teenager not to long ago with many troubling stages, regarding your question of confessing to him your lust problem i say a BIG NO, u will kill it , he will look at you like a jerk & he won’t take it for good that u re open with him on that matter, especially since u are a rav, it will just make things worse, all i can say is, that u gota send him to the professionals & follow up behind the scene, & of course some yiddisha mamma treran will go a long way if not for now, it will for sure be used l8r in life

Hatzlacha raba

I agree with J-n-IP. But I do have one more thought:

I'm associated with a pediatrician who works with emotional trauma cases. Child abuse, child rape, stuff you shouldn't ever know from.

The doc gives the patient a big stuffed animal at the first visit. These are often patients who are 8, 10, 14, 17!! years old. And they get a stuffed animal.

And they cry. Great heaving sob cries.

I asked the doc why and got back: it's always one of two things.
1) In most cases, these kids NEVER RECEIVED A DOLL OF THEIR OWN. IN THEIR LIVES. NEVER. THEY NEVER HAD A CHILDHOOD AT ALL, OFTEN. THIS STUFFED ANIMAL IS A CHANCE TO TOUCH THE STUFFED ANIMAL THEY SAW ON TV AND NEVER HAD IN THEIR OWN LIVES.

2) In some cases, they had a doll from someone they loved and trusted. And then that love was taken away and the trust betrayed. And they haven't trusted since. And this animal puts them back into that age and that state where they lived in trust. And they'd forgotten about it. Until this moment. And then it all comes back to them.

So, Rav, does this say anything to you about whether there might be some value in helping your kid feel the unconditional love of a parent, as perhaps even an infant would be feeling for a mother?  These are very very very powerful drugs. No prescription required.

Thanks again, Briut. Will try to put this into action...doesn't seem very complicated to give my kids some of the things that are natural for kids to have on just a regular day...thanks again.

That might explain Rav Shlachter's use of teddy bears in treating this addiction...

"You don't need to look at porn. Here's a teddy bear instead."

Still think Doc. Martin knows better...

Dear Shmendrick, we all feel your pain with your son. I would read through some of the great resources and advice on this website: www.rabbihorowitz.com/

Guard has it! Rabbi Horowitz all the way. His tapes could change your son's life. I don't even know any more than what you've put in your thread, and I'm willing to make that a money-back guarantee.  AND...

Although it's sorta risky, I wonder if you could ask your SON to listen to a tape or two, and tell YOU which of the recommendations he would welcome.

After all, it would be a pity if you take on numbers #5 & 6 when he would give his eye teeth for a father who used #7!

What can I say, Chevra, WOW!  SO much love and good wishes and good advice....it really is heartening to be amongst this holy group of מבקשי ה' מעמק הבכא !  ;D

Well, he has been home, spent a few days, and went back.  Did it accomplish anything for him???  I have my severe doubts.

He, of course, arrived from the Greyhound ordeal full of complaints about how awful it was.  Then, he had to sleep and rest for the  rest of Thursday and a good deal of Friday . . .  oh and SHabbos and Sunday as well.   

The wife and I tried to set him down and talk with him - and ask him where he plans to go with his life, and how his current destructive behavior, even לשיטתו  is going to get him the supermodel wife and the big lake-shore house and Ferrari, etc.  I hope we got him to think a bit, but I did not see too much in terms of his making any effort to make up the missing work..

I decided, in the short time that was available in one weekend between naps, that it was not the time to broach the P issue.  I did mention to him that i was glad that he wrote me the letter wherein he admitted the problem. 

But I think that we really do need to get him some serious help when he comes back in two weeks for the summer.  I will certainly spend some time looking at Rabbi Horowitz's site, and trying to figure out who the professional to speak with him is.

Oy Oy -- this child rearing business is not easy.  How do you ignore the sullen looks, the "I'm not so religious" comments (when he found out that I installed K-9 -- complaining that it is totaly ridiculous to keep him away from youtube - what kind of religious extremism is this???), the shlepping him to shul only to have him sleep through davening, and yet to appreciate the smiles and good wishes when they do come???  It is so hard for me to just go with the Teddy Bear approach - and I severely wonder whether it is correct in this case -- and yet, I cannot claim I have been more successful with other approaches either.

(Of course, to top things off,  my beautiful congregant, that I spoke about earlier, stopped by on Shabbos as a somewhat welcome distraction . . . and I did not know whether the chance to focus on her  was a curse or a welcome respite from focusing on him ...  )

At least I have been able to stay clean more easily lately...all this stuff is sapping up alot of my energy.

Thanks again for listening...I appreciate it so much!

Your Shmendrick

 

jewinpain wrote on 06 Jun 2010 22:10:

Groyser Ya'sher Koach to J.I.P. !!! Very profound statement!
Could be that the reason the RBS"O send these kinds of tzuros is because He wants to hear our mamma treran. "Hashmeaynei a Kolache".. eyin Shir HaShirim.