I've missed tasting my favorite Shmendrink for too long.

L'CHAIM!!

I'm new to GYE. I choose the name Yedidya after hearing a one of the Rabonim on the site speak about the dangers of feeling unloved by Hashem because of our falling in to chet and the feelings of despair,hopelessness/ye'eush. I have even come across people in 12 step meetings who engage in self-deprecation.  In my humble opinion,the ikar is to keep moving forward and keep getting up after every slip/fall. The Y.H. wants us to give up and stop trying to succeed in Avodas Hashem. Chazak V' Ematz!!!

Since being on this site I understand it a bit differently: the YH wants us to win and not fail when he presents us with a test.  If you recognize that the YH is a gift from Hashem, a constant companion who offers us many opportunities to serve Hashem, all we have to do is say "no" to the YH (which is what he really wants us to do) and, bingo, we've turned away from evil, and performed a great mitzvah.

Shabbat Shalom

yedidya aleph wrote on 07 May 2010 18:26:


Accepting you have an illness is not self-deprecation. It is simply honesty. And in the 12-Step groups, they learn that Hashem loves them even with the disease, and they try to feel his love and depend on Him more and more, each day! 

Hi Guys,

It is not that I have been on vacation  8) .  I have various excuses for staying away for the last three weeks (problems with my son described in an earlier posting - I needed to go visit him in his Yeshiva out of town for a few days; Preparing and getting through SHavuos;  Yada and yada  :o ) so I have been away.

And I have fallen off the wagon.  Big time.  Spent a few hours yesterday and the day before looking at ridiculous shmutz, including some that I had not seen before, which in one case led to M.  :-[

So I am shamefully and helplessly back, realizing that I have an out of control problem ( as if I didn't already know that  : )  Back at step 1 or before.  and hopefully back with you guys for good, for better or worse.  IYH i will finally get a decent filter installed, and focus on my responsibilities.

One of those is to set an example for my son, who admitted to me that he has developed a big problem in this area.  It will take much wisdom  ??? and determination  :-X to accomplish something positive for him, but im yirtzeh Hashem it is worth the effort.

Thank you all for listening.

(A real deservedly self-deprecating) Shmendrick

Glad to have you back - and be proud that you're working on this issue, and that you have a real, renewed commitment.

shmendrick wrote on 26 May 2010 19:44:


Wow. Thanks for the reminder. I think of my own teenaged boy. Who's growing up quite yeshivisch and quite unlike my own barely-traditional life.

What if I thought he was already on this site; what if I thought he was at-risk (of being on this site); what if I thought I could be a better role model for him or example to him or at least crush some multi-generational chain of folks struggling with this.

I guess I'd be working harder.  So, thanks for the reminder.

shmendrick wrote on 26 May 2010 19:44:

Self-deprecating, self-loving, self-whatever. It doesn't matter to me what it is. If it's "self-" anything, it's treif for me.
My brocha to you is that you learn how to accept the way things are and do whatever you must for today to be as good as possible with His help. Your son needs to keep reaching out for help. If he has admitted that to you, that's saying a lot - about both of you and your relationship. You probably have a pearl there. Don't waste it.

I am not advising you but perhaps this boy will benefit more from learning about your problem and what you are doing about it - successful or no - than from almost anything else. Just a possibility. Did our fathers ever gift us with their imperfections, or did we have to always figure them out under a facade of denial and see it through the hypocrisy of parental perfection? Truth is always honorable, even ugly truth.

But ask someone really smart first.....and ask the RBS"O to help you with all this....again, just ideas.

Hatzlocha,

Dov

dov wrote on 27 May 2010 02:31:


It is very interesting . . . I am getting different advice here about this מן הקצה אל הקצה . . .  ???

Some, as Dov here, feel that it would be good for me to share my struggle with my son, and use it to create empathy and encouragement.

Others have written to me




I am sort of going back and forth in my head about it.  He is in sever danger of being kicked out of Yeshiva right now for not showing up for davening, shiur, class  . . . in my view largely because of this . . . and I may have him around a fair amount for some time. :'(

Anyone else care to weigh in????

Great Shabbos to everyone and I thank you guys so much!

Shmendrick

1- Seeking professional help may prove helpful for you and your wife (who I do not hear anything about there - does she exist?) to make a decision.

2- Perhaps there is a third option. You could encourage your son to open up to someone else. A person who may be able to help him 'get his issues under control' and succeed in yeshiva. Find a good shrink. If you really believe he has serious schmutz issues and is out of control as a direct result of that, a professional might help guide him to SA if that's what's indicated. Depending on his age, that may or may not be appropriate. Most likely he needs professional help at this point and being part of a group (like SA) that is totally based on self-responsibility might be ridiculous for him.

Is this helpful?

These issues are big ones...
I'd contact a reputable M'chanech (with a track of success) for advice....

Somehow I doubt that SA is appropriate for that age...

Whatever the case may you have Siata D'shmaya...
I for one am rooting for you and your son....

OK, I'll weigh in.
1. I'm AGAINST sharing your plight with your son. Maybe maybe the generic ("some guys have done this") approach if it doesn't cause him to freak, get guilty etc. But his "stuff" is NOT NOT NOT all about you - it's his. And he might need a strong dad to lean against, so you shouldn't weaken yourself in his eyes. Just my opinion, YMMV.

2. I'm AGAINST groups etc. He's a gosh-darned teenager, for crying out loud. They're SUPPOSED to be obsessed with their bris, their hormones, their emotions, their self-centeredness, etc. Even if he's got it a little out of whack (if that's a pun I apologize), it's probably a matter of a bad AMOUNT of activity and not an inherently bad NATURE of activity. Clinical-izing it and awful-izing it might not be the best approach to helping him feel the self-confidence and self-respect he'll need to fix things FOR HIMSELF. As I teen, I wouldn't have wanted to hear "you're sick" but rather "you have an opportunity for an upgrade to world-class."

3. Folks here range from hard-core addicts down to merely curious. Of COURSE you're gonna hear a wide range of views. I'll 'fess up that I don't buy in to the 12-step model for myself, so I'm projecting this all the more for some teen who has a few DECADES less of acting out than I do. Others might think that if they'd only acknowledged this decades ago, they'd still have their marriage and money and career and all that. You'll have to pick and choose what speaks to you.

Okay, so you asked us to vote and that's mine. For what it's worth (FWIW).

Thank you all so much for your love, care, concern, and advice ....much appreciated. :'(

Well the saga continues.... I am actually online now to take a break from dealing with my son  today...he managed to get himself suspended for missing minyan too many times, and he is supposed to be getting on a BUS about now to come home from a Midwest yeshiva to NY for a LOOOOOOOOOONG busride and weekend. 

As of right now, he will probably miss the bus, which will add  about 11 hours to his journey .... 

Once he gets here, I imagine he will be wallowing in self pity about the cruel yeshiva and parents who did this to him... and I wonder if any productive interactions will be possible over the weekend...he heads back on Sunday.

(I also wonder what reading material he will be getting himself on the way... now that he does not have his ipod.)

The problems with him just keep mounting...flunking in school...using our ATM card without permission to the tune of hundreds of dollars...on top of his shmutz issues.

I made a tentative appointment for him to meet Rabbi Daniel Mechanic on Friday, who is supposed to be an expert in helping kids, but I imagine he will say he is too tired to go.

Well . . . We get him back for a month in two weeks....at that time I will have to decide on a larger plan for a kid that is veering way out of control.

Dov asked about my wife.

She is wonderful, understanding, and very giving...and I am a very lucky man.  My relationship is very good with her, as I do not deserve such a wonderful, and very attractive, wife, and probably it is because she has a lousy self image that she tolerates me.  :D  She knows, and is grateful,  that I have joined an internet addiction group, that discusses amongst other things, looking at inappropriate material - though she does not know that this is its raison d' etre.  It really is a sign of my sickness that despite the fact that I find her very attractive and everything I could hope for sexually, I still have an insatiable desire to look at P.

As for her relationship with my son, I wonder how it affects things.  He was and is extremely close to her...even till today (when he is bigger than her) he likes nothing more than to sit in her lap and stroke her neck ...sort of like in nursing position.  I often used to call him Eddy as in Oedipus.  We are not completely on the same page in regard to him, but I  she is seeing that we have a real problem here.

Thanks again so much for listening

Shmendrick

Dear Shmen.

  I have no intention in giving some phsyco opinion, with a detailed mehalech for you to get your son back into the right track....the track of a successful, happy, fulfilled yeshiva bochur. How can we possibly give advice when ......we can't even take care of ourselves!
  But, here is my advice :D

Let's try to keep things simple.

1) Hashem is giving to YOU this challenge for your good. I have noticed in my .......years in this world that our children somehow as unusual as it may be, they grow up like their parents. If the parents are losers in some aspect, our kids are wonderful students, and they learn everything from us.
  Your son seems to have similiar challenges as his father...no coincidence. It could be that the very same difficulties with life that you face, (i.e. the one's that you chose to create in your mind, and live with), are the same one's to some extent that your son has adopted, and so, the very same medicine that you have found, will numb his suffering also.
  What does this mean in simple terms. Fix yourself first, and then.....your son will change automatically. Maybe not in one day, but this is the proper mehalech. You may be asking yourself, "what am I going to do now with my son", but in reality it could be that Hashem has sent this gift to you, for you to really see yourself. Fix the midah in yourself first, and then you will no longer see it in the other...i.e your son.
  Most importantly,when your son comes home, do your best not to go into the criticism routine. And, if you do happen to slip with this, and you pay good attention, you will be surprised to hear that the very same criticism that you see in him, you in fact have them in yourself. 
  This is not a punishment that Hashem is sending you but rather....an opportunity.

Shmen, I read your name, Shahm eyn dreck.  H" makes no junk, as the saying goes.  Anyway, I've been following your thread, and wish I could give you some good advise.  Sadly, I've raised three myself, and didn't do such a hot job of being a father.  Their mother saved them from me as needed.  They're fine.  They even seem to enjoy being with me.

But they don't know about (ch'vsh) my lust and sex addiction.  So I'm now 5 days clean, Be"H.  I'm not looking over my shoulder that someone maybe will see through my act and know the "truth" about me.  Maybe the kids don't know in any conscious way, but I can tell I'm different being clean just these few days.  So that must come across to the kids somehow.  A therapist once had the strength to tell me maybe it isn't such a good idea for me to spend so much time with my kids.  It hurt so deeply, partly because after I got over being ticked off, I cried and cried because I knew it was true.  I gave up believing I knew how to raise my kids, and accepted that their mother, whom I was constantly correcting about her parenting, really knew how to love them and correct them, and brought H" to the house and the kids in ways I hadn't acknowledged.  and I just backed off a lot, and it seems everybody was more relaxed.

I'm not saying any of that to suggest I think that's what you should do.  Seems like a totally different situation.  You've got your hands and heart full, and I wish I could offer you more than just that I too had/have a hard time with being a father. 

May you and your family know great shalom bayis.  I think I best serve my kids by working at what I finally came here to do.  I'm gonna stay close.  I relate to what you're going through.  Give me a shout if you want.  I'll be there.