captain wrote on 25 Jul 2025 12:41:

For some reason, my entire PM option is gone. Would love to hear more - youknowho300@proton.me

I'm still going back and forth on this, whether it should be put up publicly. If someone wants to convince me to post it publicly, do so here. (You might want to read the post first, so PM me for it.)

captain wrote on 25 Jul 2025 13:55:

Public. On a public forum, some will like what you write and some won't. 

youknowwho wrote on 25 Jul 2025 14:00:

True! But I'm more concerned about:
1) having a bad impact on a reader (making him angry at the system, or at rabbanim, etc. I've found this to be very damaging overall.)
2) It perhaps being understood in ways that don't contain the proper respect for incredibly great people.

Of course, some people do need to hear this. The question just is what the impact of making it public will be, and if there is anything negative, is it justified by the benefits to those who will gain from it being public.

Perhaps a compromise is to give marei mekomos?

captain wrote on 25 Jul 2025 13:55:

This is a public forum, we have the right to discuss whatever we want, albeit in a respectful manner. Truth be told when someone clearly wants his thread to be geared toward a certain direction, makes sense that if you want to veer from that direction, start your own thread. Up for debate. 

Either way, I dont know why this point is being considered in such a (almost fearful) manner. Let's start with this. Would a Sefardic businessman in Aleppo attempt to understand the code of the way husyatiner chassidim understand the proper way to daven ashrei? Or in more general terms, would a student firmly entrenched in the world of Rav Shamshon Raphael Hirsch delve into the Hashkafa of Rav Baruch Ber? If they would it would probably classify as a hobby, perhaps an interesting intellectual pastime. 
Practically? 
They are very different.
The world of Europe was very very different then our world. In so many ways. From nearly every angle. 
Each generation his its unique charachter and its own nisyonos. The concept of mesorah can help with halacha and even minhag but when it come to chinuch and general self growth it obviously needs to be translated both to fit the needs of the generation and even more specifically - the individual.
Without delving, what difference does it make what they did in europe?
What we do know is that if someone attempted to recreate Navardok or Kelm nowadays should probably open up a mental institution because at least over there its regulated and official. (Yes, the two above are extreme examples, but the general point is the same)
We might stem from Litvish Yeshivos, Chassidic courts, or other schools of hashkafa and their are certain principles that we glean from them and are unchanging. But practically? We need to do what works and brings us closer to Hashem, we are not busy needling on earlier generations that frankly, probably is mostly speculation (if even that) without any real clue what we are talking about. 
I am NOT criticizing captain, (and I did NOT request his write up), or anyone else in this post. I am just pointing out what I think is the proper attitude.
The only think I think could be gained is someone, and I truly feel bad for this type of person, who has been so traumatized that he must replicate and personify the old european system (which he has no clue about) that he must learn what he can just for the sake of practical differentiation.)
Please excuse me if my tone was sharp, I only meant it to be blunt, and nothing personal to anyone.

I was referring to what was done by great people in europe that 1) still impacts many yeshivos today, and 2) could be (inaccurately but very likely to happen) viewed as disrespectful to them

Personally, I think anything that you see clearly the possibility of people walking away with disrespect for gedolei Yisroel, don't share

I can't initiate PMs, but if you send me one I can send it to you

captain wrote on 25 Jul 2025 17:48:

Not worth the danger in an open forum.