Very much relate

Question:  
Does “having them” make you feel more wholesome as a human being or rather does it make you feel wholesome as a “Man”?

richtig wrote on 15 Jun 2023 21:15:

So  true, Reb Richtig. It is the real paradox of relationships in general, and especially between man and woman.
As far as your question Yitz, I can say I have that feeling to a certain degree when let's say I meet somebody I view as successful. I somehow feel that if I were connected to that person I'd be better off, like that somehow reflects on me. Is that what you are feeling?

I mean a much more visceral sensation, a sexual rushing, a void that's aching to be filled with his beauty, his vitality, his strength; a feeling of incompleteness that can be satiated only by connecting with him.


Still looking to hear more takes on this. I would like to better understand if it's unique to homosexual feelings or if it's universal, based on the different experiences and viewpoints we find here.

I very much relate to this Yitz, and in my experience I've come to learn that it's because when we connect with other people intimately, it means that they love every part of us, the good and the bad. When we see someone we're attracted to, I believe there's more to it than looks (though that doesn't always have to be the case): we see this person as someone who is  special and we want to connect with them because we value who they are. Meaning, if they (these "perfect people") like everything about me, especially on an intimate level, it makes us feel so good because its giving us the highest amount of validation we can ever get. Imagine someone is really into baseball, and a famous baseball player sees them play and the baseball player says "I love how you play", its the greatest feeling in the world because that person looks up to that baseball player in an awe-inspiring way, and if they like how I play, its the biggest compliment. So when we see someone attractive, we emulate them in some way, maybe its looks, or a certain sense of humor, or both, we put them on a pedestal and see them as better than us in some way. And like the famous baseball player, "If they like me, especially EVERYTHING about me, its the greatest feeling in the world.
Knowing this, if we choose not to be with them and reject them for whatever reason, we feel like we're loosing on that chance to feel intimate with these "perfect people". We can never get their validation, and therefore we feel a huge sense of loss, because we feel that if we can't get validation from him, no one else can give it because no one else is on that level of "perfection", and other people's validation seems to pale in comparison, so we just feel empty. I hope this made somewhat sense. Feel free to ask to clarify.

Brokensoul wrote on 16 Jun 2023 04:00:

YES YES YES

yitz23 wrote on 16 Jun 2023 03:06:

Painfully powerful words. I feel you, Yitz. I don't think the feeling you are describing are specific to the type of sexual attraction.

The way I understand what you are describing is thus: A sensitive soul, burning with the needs for fulfillment, beings loved, deep relationship, when experiencing sexual attraction and lust will yearn for it in the context of the aching need to be filled by the satiation of all his overwhelming needs.
Of course, as you know, empty sex won't fulfill those aching desires at all, (except maybe the immediate wave of red lust, and leave you feeling used-up and worse).

But its probably ok to realize that within a genuine, healthy, positive, mutual, loving tong-term relationship, when you are building a life together, the physical aspects of intimacy and loving are vehicles to contain and enhance everything else in the relationship, and can help you feel truly complete....  Has to be approached in the right way, but it's there. Hashem created this drive for a good reason, and using it according the the guidelines provided by the Manufacturer will provide the best results. וידע  mean knowing and connecting in the deepest way. This isn't the time and place to discuss this more fully, imyH in the right time, soon, my friend.        

Forgive to skip all the conversation. I just read what you said in the first post. There is a phenomenon called oedipus conflict. Its the natural attraction (not sexual as we know, to be clear, the will to get close physically as children do, make mom proud, spend time with her, ect, NOT SEXUAL, to be super clear again)that children feels toward the oposing sex parent. I will skip all the complexity it create when its not happening and go to you. If you feel this way toward your mother, then welcome to the world of being totally normal. You will most likely understand its impossible and find a subtitute, as i often saw, a wife who resemble your mother. If in the other hand its only her who feel this toward you, and it gives you feelings of rejection and even disgusts you, that can explain your gay part. Feel free to tell more since we are all well hidden behind our keyboards lol 

yitz23 wrote on 16 Jun 2023 03:06:

here's my take:
i've had feelings that if i would get closer to someone i would be more complete. not in a sexual way, more as a matter of validation. like if this guy who i think has many maalos is friends w me, that gives me more self worth, and higher social status. especially when such a guy would be friends w someone i considered to have less maalos then me, i would almost feel it unjust that this guy is being friends w some shmendrik and not w me. it would get tough some times cuz i had a hard time making friends.

Thanks, all, for the words of wisdom, for the words of commiseration, and for the elusive junction of the two that we try to occupy.

I woke up today again with a massive wet dream, probably the result of too much touching on the long Shabbos afternoon I spent in my own company.

Today I used my creative side to conceive different URL paths that would go undetected by my filter and allow me to view not tznius images. I masturbated without ejaculating (there's got to be a word for that).

I feel like such a loser because I was up at eight-ish but I didn't want to get out of bed because I figured that if I showed up to my chavrusa today, he would expect me to be there tomorrow, and the feeling of pressure to go learn is something that I avoid at any cost. (As you might imagine, there's a history behind that.)

So here I am, day 55, with another blemish on my record, more alluring images blazed into my mind's eye. I don't count it as a fall since I didn't ejaculate. I hope that one day this sort of thing would be considered a fall, but right now I have a more limited scope of behavioral modification


There's a thought that has been weighing on me for the past little bit, but I held back from posting about it because I felt it is too deviant, too far off, too much for everyone to handle. But I will go for it, knowing that I will likely get responses from people who cannot relate and who may not have the openness to really hear me.

I come to be seen, to share deeply, and maybe by letting some light into this part I will live with myself more fully. (I discuss a fetish in here, so reader be advised.)

I am by nature a very independent person. Since I was little, I did tasks and expressed myself like someone years older than me. I never understood my teenage friends who needed a friend to go with them to do everything: I've always gone to the pizza shop by myself, selcted and applied for camp and high school by myself, gone camping by myself, toured foreign countries by myself, and gone to new yeshivos by myself without knowing anybody. I am essentially an only child, so even when I'm home I have the sense of being by myself. I never really let anybody help me with big decisions, least of all my parents.

I also always knew I had a fascination with corporal punishment. I received almost none of it as a kid, but I would look through all the chinuch books to find where it was discussed. I would go through dictionaries and thesauruses as well to try to find mentions of it. I remember envying friends whose fathers would hit them. I had a childish theory about how to determine the likelihood that a given friend was receiving corporal punishment based on the bone structure of his father's hand and the shape of his face or buttocks.

I also had an enthusiasm for the human buttocks. I remember going through my Curious George books, studying the butts of all the characters. When I went with mom to go buy a suit, I would surreptitiously look to see if the fit flattered my backside. (I think that when I was in high school, I could identify practically anyone in the school just from his bottom.)

Naturally, on the occasions that I accessed pornography, there was a bit of a focus on spanking and BDSM. The "touches and pats" that I've engaged in and that I mentioned in my first post involved the tush mainly.

(If you don't know what BDSM means, don't Google it cv"s - PM me and I can tell you what it stands for).

I never really fully leaned into my punishment fetish until eleven days ago when I was sexting with a GYE friend. I gained a clarity then of how powerful an emotion it is, and that I see my role as the one receiving the punishment.

In the past year or so I started to look at my fierce independence as more of a mixed blessing. Perhaps it is not merely a strong sense of self, but also an hesitation to connect with people that was driving it? I have lots of friends, but is there a deep part that won't let itself be known in a relationship, and that in the deepest sense, I don't let anyone in?

The association with my punishment fetish went off like a lightbulb. To me, being punished is a symbol for having someone who is bigger and stronger than me take responsibility for me, maybe even take pride in me. To draw clear boundaries for me so I don't have to carry the great load of life's consequences on my own, as I've been doing for so long. To have someone who can handle me in my entirety, and to whom I am willing to submit, unlike my feeble, timid father whose very existence gives me the fright that I could turn out like him.

To take the weight off independent little Yitz's shoulders.


(This all worries me. I realize that if I was in a gay relationship right now, I'd be the "bottom." I would have a husband to take care of me emotionally, to be there for me to lean on, to pick me up when I'm down.  Am I ready to be that husband for some girl out there? To be her rock, to give to her unconditionally, every day, forever? Where will I get the strength from?)


Thanks for reading. I hope that no one feels sullied from reading this. Please hear it as the אנקת אסיר that it is.

All I’m going to say here is that you’re not the only guy here who craves a spanking, it’s a lot more common than you think as I found out with my fetishes but not many are willing to admit they harbor such fetishes publicly even on an anonymous forum

Yitz thanks for sharing this vulnerable part of you. Your self awareness and clarity is something special. 

Sapy wrote on 19 Jun 2023 14:24:

I second that.

Yitz, I'm blown away by your self-clarity. There seem to be so many layers of complexity here. I won't even attempt to unravel everything.

I just want to say that I think your fear about being a husband who is "needy" is a bit unfounded. I personally think these qualities are a major asset. There is a great thread on the balei battim's forum called "Needy Husbands" where some of these issues have been hashed out. 

We can chat privately if you want.

Wow! 
I can handle pain as much as the other guy but never liked being spanked as I dont have much of a butt, im very skinny....lol
Thank Hashem for that....... 
Anyways, what you are describing is a very real and known phenomenon, ask any therapist about it or look it up on a mental health site to understand. Its incredible that you figured it out by yourself, that means you are getting to the bottom of your own mind. 
Keep on digging but remeber that you are not your mind...... You are so much bigger and more capable, a human being especially a Yid has so much power and potential that its a waste to spend our short lives just trying to figure out what our brains want.... we could be telling them what we want! 

Good luck and keep it real, brother!

Wow! 
I can handle pain as much as the other guy but never liked being spanked as I dont have much of a butt, im very skinny....lol
Thank Hashem for that....... 
Anyways, what you are describing is a very real and known phenomenon, ask any therapist about it or look it up on a mental health site to understand. Its incredible that you figured it out by yourself, that means you are getting to the bottom of your own mind. 
Keep on digging but remember that you are not your mind...... You are so much bigger and more capable, a human being especially a Yid has so much power and potential that its a waste to spend our short lives just trying to figure out what our brains want.... we could be telling them what we want! 

Good luck and keep it real, brother!