Emes-a-Yid wrote on 01 Dec 2022 13:52:

I agree with you. I think its critical for a bachur who has already been exposed to constant porn and masturbation to start reprograming his brain now when hes single, to hear about what real sex and intimacy are about in real life. Getting a few chosson shmuezzes from a rebbe who A)-May be someone we don't feel safe opening up to about our porn challenges and B )-May or may not really perceive the way porn affects the brain---will not do the trick. 

I personally did not want to "learn on the job". I thought that would be a terrible experience. Reprogramming our brain takes time. Reprograming doesn't come with knowledge of what's right and what's wrong. That's where it starts, but that's not where it ends. It takes time. I think its very beneficial for bachurim to have a goal they feel they can reach in time for marriage of really feeling that what we see in porn is actually not reality. Because no matter how many times you tell me and I cognitively understand that what I see in porn is not real life, I still feel like its real life. And to take away that feeling and reprogram my brain, it takes time.

I personally bought a book on Jewish sex (not necessarily recommended- it can be triggering. Better to hear it here on gye with all of our chashuve role models.) and read up a lot about it. It has helped me set a goal for marriage of being in a place were I really feel that real sex is real and porn is crap and totally not real life. And that woman connect mainly to the emotional intimacy of sex and not the physical aspect of sex like men and like in porn. --And bh I'm already far along the path and I'm 10 times ahead of other unfortunate singles who will have to wake up to a very disturbing surprise, not to mention their kallahs, who will be traumatized by not understanding why in the world this new chosson of theirs wants them to do things they find strange, awkward, scary, and hurtful. A hurtful and traumatizing chosson night 1 of marriage doesn't sound like a good recipe for success to me. It will be so damaging. No one should ever start a marriage like that.

I am not saying bacherim should know the ins and outs/triggering details of healthy sex. Therefore I'm not saying we should know what is assur and muttur in sex. We don't need to know that. All the details of sex is not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about the authentic bonding experience that is sex. The authentic experience vs the acting in porn. The most intimate part of our relationship with our wives. The more we hear from people like our chashuve friend Eerie, how scammed they were and how surprised they were and how they wish they would've known earlier, the more we---bachurim that have been exposed and only have had false and fake exposure to sex--- can internalize and reprogram our brain, about what authentic sex is. Going into marriage to start reprograming my brain I think is a terrible idea. For me. For my wife. For my shalom bayis.   

I think Gye is the exact place that we should be reprogramming our brain as apposed to other sources. So please continue posting about the truth of Jewish intimacy and your intimacy truths. bachurim please reach out to all the great role models we have here on Gye. Ask them if woman enjoy the sex portrayed in porn. Ask them what your wife will think of you if she doesn't enjoy porn-type-sex and you tell her "But you enjoy this, i know you do". Ask them how your wife will react to feeling like you are using her if she doesn't enjoy porn type-sex  Go ahead and ask. Its about time.  

And please don't think "my wife will like it" maybe she will maybe she wont. You cant decide for her what she enjoys. The same way she cant tell you you like eating whole wheat bread. You may like whole wheat bread, but that's for you to decide, not her.

 Love ya'll either way!! BTW- no judgment here to any girl who enjoys sex in ways the average "yishivish girl" doesn't. I'm not here for judgment. I'm talking about girls who don't enjoy porn-type-sex and find it hurtful, strange, awkword and scary. No judgment to anyone else here. I love you too!

Hi friends and family, dear brothers at GYE! In yesterday's post I wrote that it's a week since I posted my first post. (Reb Geshmak, I'm still waiting for the hartzige mazal tov!) Well, today marks an even more monumental day. It marks a week since I spoke to someone. It was half an hour to shabbos, to be exact,(don't mind my manners) but he answered the call. I wrote it before, but I can't begin to describe the difference between writing about my life, having people read, comment, share chizuk, and talking to someone live. Someone who can listen, hear my cry, pat me on the back, tell me that I'm normal, that Hashem loves me, that I'll be ok. Someone who gets me, who understands where I am coming from, understands what makes me tick. Someone that can direct me, give me a plan, help me strategize, and perhaps above all someone who  make me feel comfortable enough, so not judged, that I feel I can call and tell him anything, even if I fall (Hashem, please help that I never need to make that call). Writing about it got it off my heart; I now realize that the terrible feeling of keeping my secret from the world was just choking me. But when we speak to people, they hear the nuances, they can pick up on the issues. Speaking is to be really connecting. To open up your soul and have somebody see your innermost essence. It was totally transformative. There are so many good tools here, including the forum which allows us to express what's inside, which so many of us are just plotzing to do, but I would venture to say that nothing comes close to speaking to someone. Do I still find it uncomfortable to talk about the most personal part of my life, the most private things that only Hashem knows? Of course! It is very uncomfortable and hard. And every phone call hurts, no question. But it is so amazing! It's so helpful, I really can't describe it to someone who hasn't done it. Of course, we have to be wise and choose carefully who we tell what to, as we must protect ourselves and our families. But if we find that person that can understand our souls it can save us, to talk, to open up all the rusted boxes we have hiding inside and get rid of what's in them. For me it changed everything. Maybe it's your ticket to freedom.

Any bochur who was exposed to pornography should receive a sound sex education. He needs to know that what he saw online is not a representation of real life. He needs to know what really happens - both physically and emotionally. He should be allowed to ask any questions he has. It is scary how guys are toxically brainwashed for years with no education to undo the damage.  He needs to know that sex is a celebration of intimacy - it is the peak of a process. It is not a selfish act in a vacuum. He needs to know that yes, there is enormous pleasure, but not the selfish, completely physical pleasure he was led to believe he will have. He needs to know that his "job" is to give, and by giving he will receive a lot more than he can ever imagine. He needs to know that porn stars are paid enormous amounts of money to do things one would not naturally enjoy doing. He needs to know that the women are paid to smile while engaging in grotesque and sometimes painful acts. He needs to know that his future wife will not want to do 90% of what he sees on the screen, and there is nothing wrong for her lack of willingness to do these things. Before checking out in sforim if his fantasy that he has been envisioning (and masturbating to) for years is mutar al pi halacha, he must first check if his wife would even enjoy that fantasy act. By providing this education, 1- many future marriages will iyh be saved - even better - they will start out from day 1 in a fulfilling, healthy, enjoyable, and appropriate manner, 2- many bochurim will iyh calm down from their anxieties (my parents and Rosh yeshiva actually do what i see online?!), 3- many guys will recognize the danger and stop poisoning their minds with pornography, and 4- most of those many guys will iyh stop masturbating as well. 

Hashem Help Me wrote on 02 Dec 2022 18:02:

Thank you HHM for your clear and definitive weigh in on this issue. If there are bochurim reading this and they feel like following your recommendation for a "sound sex education", can you post some leads or sources for them to turn to,or people to reach out to, to find out where to receive the education that will give them a healthy, normal, correct perspective on what sex will mean to him when he B'ezras Hashem gets married? And what about someone who IS married, as myself, and are minds have been poisoned, how can we detox? Obviously having a honest and open discussion with our wives would help a lot, but is that it? Should we be learning something that can straighten out our sickened minds? If yes, what is that?

So here's the next small lesson. I don't want to trigger and be explicit, so I'll just say it like this. I will tell you that for a long time there was something that I fantasized about, I hoped one day to do it. I didn't ever ask my wife but I once shmoozed about the concept, and she was so disgusted and horrified by the idea, I would never think of asking. Gone it was. But in the things I've seen it's glorified, it's sold as common fare. Now I know that it's only because it gives the men control, power, whatever. But it's sick that it's something most of us have seen there, if we would only know that it's not natural for a women to enjoy it, There's a reason the Torah uses the word ויענה when refering to it. I later learned how painful that is for most women. Yes, you are right HB, everyone of us will have to sit down and find out what our wives enjoy, but until then you can be pretty sure that she won't enjoy what you've seen there. We have to rewire our brains. Plain and simple.

Eerie wrote on 04 Dec 2022 05:04:

Best approach: A face-to-face conversation with an appropriate person - chosson rebbi, rav, GYE aproved individual, etc.

Hashem Help Me wrote on 04 Dec 2022 15:13:

But there are many people out there that I'm sure understand the need to detox their minds but find talking to someone, especially face to face, way too scary too even contemplate, is their only hope to just get over their inhibitions and open up to speak to someone?

Maye Gye can set up a new subset in the forums for Questions and answers about healthy sex. It can be moderataed. Triggers will be removed.  Only Preapproved individuals can answer the questions. What does the guys think?