The rabbis in shul and yeshivos keep putting us down for falling for the yestzer hora. They can't imagine how strong the Y"H is. At least for me. I work on a pc all day in small office and no one can see my screen. Many times I sneak a peak or stay in the office alone after hours. Late night if I can't fall asleep I'll go downstairs and watch p*rn and m*.

I tried many times to commit to stopping. I tried the programs. I even once called a therapist anonymously for an hour. I once called a rov in a different town and explained my situation with him, All he told me was to quit my job.
I love my local rov but I'll never discuss it with him.

The rabbis keep putting us down. I'm now to this site and I don't think I'm alone in my opinion.

Lakewood is having an asifa tomorrow. I spoke with someone in TAG and they said it is to strengthen their commitment to who ever does not have a filter, a lock and an "ishur(?)" their kids are bounced out of school.

Did anyone ever give the rabbi a computer, internet and a closed room for an hour? How dare they make it so simple. I'm not proud of my actions, but all I'm saying is, it's not easy.

Does anyone feel the same way I do?

Your post has hit home. I suffer from the exact same thing. Today is my first day on this site. I posted a new similar topic before I saw yours. I had the same issues as you did in high school. I am following this thread too b/c I can use chizuk. Sometimes I wonder if I really want chizuk. I'm in my high 30's and I still struggle with porn and masturbation.
I had buddies as a kid that started with show me/show you. As we grew up it led to getting each other off. This lasted throughout mesivta. No, I'm not gay. The idea of anal never entered my mind. I'm now married with beautiful children BLA'H and every time a woman passes I sneak a peek and the thought of having her enters my mind.
Alsmost every smonei essray the porn videos play though my mind. Even on Yom Kippur. I hate myself for it and promise never to fall again. That lasts about 2 weeks. Then I binge. I will be in bed watching with head phones until 7:00 in the morning.

You're not alone. I don't know how to open my heart for chizuk anymore. I give my boys pep talks about it and then do it myself at night. For many years I convinced myself that if I keep the sperm inside I'm not doing anything wrong. My rov in shul spoke speaking to our boys about sexuality, abuse in school and camp and masturbation. I sat there shaking my head but inside I knew I am not any better.

I don't know where I'm going with this but I just started typing and didn't stop.
This is strong yetzer hora and many people and rabbis doen't understand it. They get up and yell "men tur nisht" or "the internet is treif". Since they don't have a computer or a basement or a laptop under their covers at night, they have no right to put us down. I promise a lot of you reading this feel the same way. We (I) am stuck in this rut. Sometimes I even look forward to a "good" shower.

I'm in tear now and I must stop typing. I'm going to copy and paste this into my post I started if anyone wants to comment there. I don't want to take away from Oyyvey27.

I hear your frustration and sympathise with you. Personally, I have never come across a Rav who has put me or anyone I know down for falling for the yetzer horah.

Rabbonim understand the yetzer hora better than us, in fact they have a stronger yetzer horah than us (the yetzer grows with the person to keep the nisoyon fair) but they know how to fight it. As the mesilas yeshorim puts it, there's no point asking someone who's lost in the garden maze how to get out, you have to ask someone who has got out and can see all the different paths. Al s'mol shehu y'min v'al y'min shehu s'mol.

I was reading a sefer on hilchos niddah recently and by the way he mentioned how well the Rabbonim understood human nature and knew which gezeiros were necessary and which were not, and not listening to one of them puts a person at risk of doing an aveiroh. For example, yichud with a regular woman is ossur, but with your wife who's a niddah is mutar, whereas handing things to your wife who's a niddha is ossur but handing to another woman is mutar. Rabbonim are the only ones who truly understand how to avoid aveiros.

If you've spoken to some Rabbanim who were not helpful to you that is a shame, but please don't disregard all Rabbonim or what the gedolim say because of it.

In any case I don't think this attitude is helpful in recovery. Let's not forget that we have an illness called pornography addiction and we are trying to cure ourselves of it. The rabbonim can help us and we should let them. I'm not calling this addiction an illness lightly, and I'm not using typical Hamodia hyperbole. Any other addiction is accepted as an illness and this is no different. It's not our fault that we're ill, but it is our responsibility to get better.

Interestingly, as a member of other forums that are goyishe I can tell you that they lack the sort of direction that we are fortunate enough to have over here. As a result, their success rate is shockingly poor, maybe 1%, long term probably less. This forum has a massively better recovery rate and success rate, and that is down to the daas torah that has been put into this site. we are lucky to have our gedolim.

im going to have to agree with qi

i understand your frustration true when struggling with porn and masturbation and other lust issues we feel theres nowhere to turn and its true this isnt something we could just talk to anyone about. (btw thats why this site is so important) but i have to strongly urge you to find someone to talk to that does understand you a rav a past rabbi or a therapist this is something that's been eating you up for many years the shame and the guilt is inside you and is part of your psyche and in my opinion (i'm no expert and im just speaking from my experience)this is something you need to deal with. you mentioned before that my earlier post hit home because you had a malarial experience when a child with a "I'll show you mine, you show me yours" thing and a situation with a boy when u were in misvta. Now if your like me you've spent hours trying to figure it all that out and trying to make sense of it and yes being ashamed and feeling guilty about it. all that has to cause something inside us and must be dealt with. i have spoken to 2 rabbaim about it one in misvta and when when learning in eratz yisroel as a bochur as well as some therapists about (i found the therapist much easier to talk to about it maybe because therapy is a very safe and excepting environment) i remember shaking when taking to rabbi in EY about it and to my surprised he wasn't surprised hes seen it before and was able to (i felt) really understand me from then on. and he was able to help lead me. i remember him telling me such a powerful and inspirational thing he said "hasham has already forgiven you for this, now you have to forgive yourself"

anyway just my thought as someone who's had similar experiences.

one more thing you mentioned abt TAG
i have to strongly disagree with you. yes i get that screaming that internet is issur is not the answer. BUT chazal tell us the best way of passing a neision is to take steps to avoid getting into it in the first place. So i feel TAG has a very imporant roal to pklay to help ppl not get in to a nesion by having filterer by educating ppl about the dangers of the internet ect ect ect. they might not be equipped to deal with ppl like us who have already fell who find themselves in a matsov where we turn to porn on a regular basis where lust and sex are always on top of our head where the smallest trigger sets us off,where we cant look at women even a dressed women and think of "having her" where we might be addicted to porn or lust, true they're not equipped to deal with that and we have to find place to turn for help. but that doesn't take away from the good and important work that they do! yes the assifas,demand for filters,and education are vitally important so more ppl shouldn't find themselves in the matsov that we do today.

i hope so of this is helpful please feel free to post or privet message me regarding anything i've written. please let me know if there's anyway i could help you on your journey.

Hatslachah Rabba
we're rooting for you

I never used to understand how the litvishe roshei yeshiva taught Kiddushin and Kesuvos to bochurim. Now I realize they are normal and I am strange.This forum is a great place for people like us to vent and get help and encouragement.

Now, I am not the least bit Yeshivish/Chareidi, but I don't think the goal of the rabbonim is to put you down. Think about it from this perspective, if you are using your computer without a filter and you then use it to surf porn until 7am, is it then not treif? You know first hand, as do all of us, just how incredibly dangerous and addicitive the internet can be. Obviously, used right it is a wonderful tool for work, for learning, for staying connected with friends.

I think their persepective is this, if you don't want to shoot yourself in the leg, don't stuff a gun in the waistband of your pants. And if you are still going to put the gun in there, at least make sure the safety is on. Rabbonim are real people too, with real yeitzer haras, if you spend enough time on this site you will read about many people who are well respected in their communities and still struggle with the problem.

I know it is hard to beat this thing, I am still struggling with it myself, this whole site is full of people struggling with it. Even if you don't like the way they are saying it, it doesn't take away from the validity of what they are saying. Don't let that be an excuse for you not to keep working on yourself. Remember, you are now in a place FULL of people, every last one of us,who understand what you are going through.

KOT

Blind Beggar wrote:

You just helped me put an episode from many years ago in perspective. When I was a young lad I was learning parshat metzorah with my dad and I was so uncomfortable at the end when talking about niddah and keri. I remember I had to ask my dad if we could stop. I think in hindsite I was uncomfortable because I knew too much about the topic, from the wrong perspective. It was akward to deal with this topic with my father, him assuming that I was relatively naive and me knowing way too much.

MBJ. when we learned in ceider parshas metzora we only learned till that part & than skipped to achrei-mos. I didn't understand why.


& Boobusy, as the previous chaveirim wrote we cannot blame the rabonim for "not understanding". they may not be aware of this program & how it works but they surly understand how the internet is treif. & there are rabonim who know this progrm & recommend it to stroggling ppl. but how to avoid it in the first place? is thru this filters!

Blind Beggar wrote:
I was OK with Kidushin, less so with Ketubot

I was just thinking about this today, learning these Sugia's in yeshiva was never a trigger, even while I was being Triggered by other triggers!
How come?
Maybe something about being on a Blatt gemorah, the power of Torah.
I know the Chasidim skipped it, but not us.
The lomdus somehow made us stop thinking about the actual cases going on.

I'm happy fir you.

personally, how many times did I "go to learn" & all of the sudden became a "big Masmid"? only in this sugyos which I didn't even have a seder. it was "pick your sefer" & I picked. gemora, Shutim. Etc.

israel613120 wrote:


I know what you mean. I've spent an entire year leaning hilchos niddah when I was in yeshiva and did not find it to be a trigger and I've taught hilchos niddah as well and never found it to be a trigger either. (Although if someone would ask me to learn hilchos niddah with them today I would not teach them if there was someone else who can)

first of all im not sure what any of the problems anyone has with the gedolim. they are simply saying not to use the internet besides for business or at the very least use only a filtered one.So whether they would fall or not having an unfiltered laptop in bed (which i personally believe they wouldn't, seeing as ive passed that test and am not (yet ) a gadol) makes no difference to what they're saying.
and about them understanding addiction, i'm not sure why you would feel that way, unless you had a bad experience with someone in which case i get you but i think that that's a minority of cases.

about the learning, i also don't really get too triggered by gemaros and halachos but sometimes it happens just a drop, so u gotta go vaiter (or start going deeper and like israel613129 said the lomdus stops you from thinking about what you're actually talking about.