Hi GYE community,

I’m not the kind of open person who usually talks/writes about my personal life and never mind about such personal issues.

I’m a frum Chasidishe Yingerman, happily married with 2 kids, who is Kovea Itim Batorah of about 3h a day. I don’t really have an issue when going on the street… But somehow my Yetzer Horah always gets me! I manage to keep clean for just about 2-3 weeks then somehow get lost on the Internet…, either by finding new ways to get past k9 filter or with a new Smartphone… he just always finds new ways… and then it goes all the way >.

My question to you guys is: Am I addicted or do I just have to face the Yeitzer Hoarh??

I feel this is my major Nisayon in life, which really puts me in doubt "Where am I standing in this world?!" halevei I could just get rid of it!! Now that I have found you all, I hope to change forever.

Looking forward hearing from someone who has been/is in a similar position to mine.

Do you believe that there are people who are powerless? The Gemara says that at conception Hashem pronounces whether this person is going to be rich or poor, wise or foolish, but the person has a choice to be tzadik or rasha. Do you believe that you are a special case and that you do not have a choice?

nm, whoa, whoa.
A choice between being a tzadik or rasha, yes, but a choice wether or not at this time I will masturbate? Maybe, maybe not.
And I heard besheim Rabbi Twersky that a person is capable of removing his own free will by getting himself addicted, and he says that is what happened to Paraoh (and if not one will have serious bechira questions from that little incident).
Rabbi Tatz says (In A Thinking Jewish Teenager's Guide to Life that bechira is applied only where a person has equal forces (50/50) battling inside him to do something or not, but when the matzav is stacked one way or the other, a person's accountability is lessened or strengthened.
To be fair, certainly a person's free will regarding addiction will be properly applied only by doing the things that will heal him from it, instead of fighting it head on. i.e. a smoker's free will applies in wether or not he will go to rehab, etc.
Try not to be so black and white about this.

You obviously don't have an answer for yourself.

In my not so humble opinion this question of bechira vs. powerlessness isn't so relevant. It takes a tremendous, well, bechira, to look at lust straight in the eye and tell him: "I don't want you, but I need you, you are stronger than me, I must give in to you, but I don't want to, so Hashem please get him away from me just for today, I can't do it myself".

Somehow and somewhy whenever I do this for real from the bottom of my heart it simply works, this is the miracle that was discovered by Bill Wilson and Co. some 80 years ago. You can call it Chrishtchianity if you'd like, after all yushke was born from a rather lustfull union, so he must have something in common with lust (that's the closest connection I was able to think of).

But be that as it may or may not, even with this sublime knoledge of mine and several million others, I still somehow manage to fall in short or long intervalls, and practically every time as a result of not properly giving up my lust to Hashem. So there is plenty of bechira here, am I gonna want this lust and go after it and mastubate to it, or am I gonna beg Hashem ot take it away form me cause I can't.

Sounds like you don't have an answe either.

arlu164 wrote on 09 Oct 2012 21:28:


Test yourself (from the Sexaholics Anonymous website)

Have you ever thought you needed help for your sexual thinking or behavior?
That you'd be better off if you didn't keep “giving in”?
That sex or stimuli are controlling you?
Have you ever tried to stop or limit doing what you felt was wrong in your sexual behavior?
Do you resort to sex to escape, relieve anxiety, or because you can't cope?
Do you feel guilt, remorse or depression afterward?
Has your pursuit of sex become more compulsive?
Does it interfere with relations with your spouse?
Do you have to resort to images or memories during sex?
Does an irresistible impulse arise when the other party makes the overtures or sex is offered?
Do you keep going from one “relationship” or lover to another?
Do you feel the “right relationship” would help you stop lusting, masturbating, or being so promiscuous?
Do you have a destructive need—a desperate sexual or emotional need for someone?
Does pursuit of sex make you careless for yourself or the welfare of your family or others?
Has your effectiveness or concentration decreased as sex has become more compulsive?
Do you lose time from work for it?
Do you turn to a lower environment when pursuing sex?
Do you want to get away from the sex partner as soon as possible after the act?
Although your spouse is sexually compatible, do you still masturbate or have sex with others?
Have you ever been arrested for a sex-related offense?





I tend to agree. And if it is, then you'll need to put in 100% effort and commitment to beating it.

Hatzlocha and welcome!

Alex

And, nm, if thsi is my major nisayon in life, I don't expect that KNOWING how to deal with it will cure me 123. I have seen good progress since I started working, but big important things take time.

quote=nederman link=topic=5703.msg145696#msg145696 date=1349830177]
Do you believe that there are people who are powerless? The Gemara says that at conception Hashem pronounces whether this person is going to be rich or poor, wise or foolish, but the person has a choice to be tzadik or rasha. Do you believe that you are a special case and that you do not have a choice?
[/quote]What does a man's philosophy on this matter? And lu yetzuyar that it does, then I ask you: since when are we guided by our official shittos on Judaism or hashkafos? We love the way orgasm feels and we do it, period. And that's for normal people - addicts are different. They seem to do it even when it does not feel good any more. Some people have it worse than others, apparently.

Look, anybody who goes around trying to get ramdom masturbaters to 'admit to themselves that they are powerless' is just an idiot. That we can agree on.

And perhaps no one is born an addict. I don't know. Perhaps every - or many - addicts grew to become addicts due to their taking liberties, perhaps starting off as becoming resho'im. Perhaps not quite resho'im. Do we know?

We love each other, that's why we are posting here, right? Is this about teshuvah and stopping doing a certain aveiro? Or is it for something more broad - like becoming a mentch again? A real man. Aren't we here to help fellow Jews inherit the sanity and serenity that comes with letting go of this garbage and engaging in real life for a change? Learning to take Hashem's gift to them (their actual life) with both hands...no?

What's with the fixation on the powerlessness?

And much more important than any philosophical arguments - where is arlu164? Hey, arlu (I use your first name already! ;D) where are yoooo??

Hatzlocha!

- Dov

I just asked a simple question, why are you losing your cool?

I havent seen anybody lose their cool which I consider rather remarkable considering the drivel you've been spewing forth.

nederman wrote on 11 Oct 2012 08:32:


Rav Dessler noted that when the two guys made a bet who could get Hillel to lose his cool, they made sure to be makdim to him each time they cheppered him (in the middle of his bath): "Rabbi Hillel, I am sure this is a great bother to you and you may lose your cool, but I have a question." He responded, "Ask, my son."

Rav Dessler explains that the hakdomah was an accusation that he was surely inwardly losing his cool already. The guys tried to irritate him that way, hoping that would tilt the scale in their favor.

So far, you have said that to me twice - instead of responding to the thoughts I shared here.

This is not about you and it's not about me. I shared what I have on this matter and if you read it in your head as 'yelling' or something, that's not my business. Please do not be like those guys - for I am not like Hillel. (He already had one of those, so it's good - He doesn't need another Hillel anyhow! )

If this is about anyone at all, it is about arlu164. So....

Hey arlu (first name again!) - how are you, chabibi?

Correction: That was Hillel (not Rabbi Akivah). See Shabbos 31a.

Aye caramba! Thanks so much, I'll correct it now...I hardly ever edit my posts, you are ruining my record. Ha! :'(

Me3 wrote on 11 Oct 2012 15:12:


Drivel: to talk stupidly and carelessly

I may something stupid sometimes. Can you point to any particular instance where I said something which was not smart?

Spewing: To send or force out in or as if in a stream; eject forcefully or in large amounts

Perhaps I used too many words? Can you point me to a specific message?

Have I hurt your feelings perhaps? Have you had a belief of powerlessness for a while?