I'm a Baal Teshuva for 15 years and grew up with masturbating since I was 15. I never thought or learned that there was anything wrong with it. I also didn't think there was anything wrong with looking at women (live and in print or media, internet, etc). I was never really into porn, tough, fortunately, although I have viewed it before.

I tried to stop about 3 years ago and wasn't able to, but I did cut down quite a bit (twice/month). I read something about how it's crucial for the survival of the Jewish people for women to dress modestly and for men to guard our eyes so I did a search on "guard your eyes" and found this site. I signed up, joined the 90 day wall and I've been clean ever since. I've been reading some posts and don't understand much of the Hebrew.

Recently, before I found this site, whenever I found myself looking at pictures of women (not naked, but almost) on the internet, I had been telling myself that they are just lowlife sluts and whores, which is true. That way, I would make myself feel like I had lowered myself to their level, which is also true. Think about it - do you really want these people controlling your lives and poisoning your soul?! FORGET THEM! That's my way of outsmarting the Yetzer Harah. Look at someone like Maddona - she is DISGUSTING! But there are so many other women in addition to Madonna that are willing to take (most of) their clothes off to get attention, to make money, become famous, etc. I loathe them. I will not let them control my life anymore.

Interesting perspective.

that's great logic and if it works for you, run with it. but in my humble opinion, there is no logic that works for addicts.maybe temporarily, but it doesn't hold.addiction is a function of habit and the senses,sight, hearing, tasting,touching, speaking.and it has to be dealt with on a basis other than logic. logic will not beat the senses for addicts.the experts say the only thing that works is group support - and i can tell you from personal experience, first-hand, that they are right.group support is the ONLY way i was able to accomplish what i accomplished - in ALL areas of life.including learning.you have to have people who will not judge you, love you unconditionally, and then, and only then you will be able to move forward.
jack

Welcome and congratulations for committing to kicking the habit.
It remains to be seen whether you're an addict or just like doing something you shouldn't.
I respect your perspective regarding the immodest women who are everywhere. I don't want anything to control me, whether she is a low life or a hot princess. But at this stage, it really doesn't matter what she is, because I'm not giving them a second glance. This includes fully clothed women. They can also get me going.

Hi startrek,

Don't get discouraged by those that think that because they finally got better they must have found the only approach that works. It's a fallacy.

I think you are on the right track, and if you keep going you stand to do better in the long term than the guy who goes to meetings, and the more he goes meetings the more he convinces himself that he is fundamentally a tzadik who has a cross to bear for the rest of humanity. Getting rid of that irrational belief of powerlessness is the true recovery. Read Feeling Good by David Burns for an entirely different approach. This book is full of skills you can learn to ponder properly before you act even in the face of terrible urges.

Thanks for the encouragement!

I worked out at the gym (not a kosher gym) at lunch today - first time since I've been on the 90 day board and I realize it's a major danger. You can imagine how many of the women are dressed there. Since I'm back on the computer, I feel this urge to look at pictures of attractive women. Each time I have to tell myself no. I have to work hard to guard my eyes when I'm there. There are no kosher gym alternatives where I live.

Welcome!

I admire your commitment to be a holy guy. But (in my humble opinion) if you're truly a BT and you truly want to be a good Jew, I suggest that you consult a competent Rabbi as to whether you are permitted to enter a non-kosher gym just because there are no kosher ones in your area. I'm not competent, but I can see how that spells trouble. I'll be the first to admit that I could not do it and remain clean.

Hatzlacha!

MT

When I was an active addict I went to a mixed gym. What fun! Plenty of fuel for my fire. Fitness is very important to me but I had to give it up. I bought some weights and have a treadmill and bike. Working out at home is definitely not as stimulating. But my recovery remains the most important thing in my life. This means that if something else that is very important to me threatens to compromise my sobriety, it has to go, or at least be compromised. I can't compromise when it comes to my sobriety. Why not? Because that's the only way it's going to work. My inner addict has a million ways and excuses to get me my fix. I'm not going back. This is hard enough without putting myself into ridiculously immodest environments.

There is a story about the GRA and the Dubno Maggid about this. The GRA recruited the Maggid for some mussar, and he told him "sure, you are the Vilna Gaon, but you never leave your home." He answered that he was not a magician. In other words, as always, the best way to solve a problem is "any way you can."

So far, since I've been on the 90 day chart, I have found it pretty easy to not fall, but every once in a while, I have tremendous urges and I struggle. So I'll do something to keep my mind occupied, like reading, and the urges fade. I guess each of these episodes is like a surge from the Yetzer Harah.

After going to the gym, I had a surge. I had another surge when a woman from work invited me to link to her on LinkedIn and I kept thinking about her. I just have to continue to weather the storms.

On another note, I keep reading other people's messages and everyone here seems to think they are a tzaddik and get depressed because they are "sinning tzaddiks". If you have these urges, you're not a tzaddik, so get over yourselves. It doesn't mean you're bad, just not a tzaddik. From what I understand, a tzaddik doesn't even have a desire to sin.

Treky,

Shlomo Hamelech teaches us that "the tzadik falls seven times and gets up"

a tzadik isn't someone who doesn't fall, a tzadik is someone who gets up after he falls, even if it's seven times.

Someone who doesn't fall is an angel not a tzadik

The longer I go without a fall, the more I can't stand being around my wife. Everything she does or says seems to get on my nerves. I feel like moving out of the house. Is this normal?

not a professional, but could be its one of the 'withdrawal' symptoms (look around the site).

but one thing i try to do when i get this type of urge, i try to do something that will make my wife happy, clean the dishes, take out the garbage, ask her how i can help her, thank her for making such a delicious supper etc.
i feel it flips the coin around and makes me appreciate her.

hatzlocho rabbo & besuros tovos!

startrek wrote on 07 Nov 2012 20:30:
Do you have any idea why you feel so averse to whatever she says to you? Asking others who are not there and have no idea what your marriage history is like at all, no idea what you are like, no idea what other pressures you and your wife are and have been under...well, that's asking for quite a lot! Don't abdicate to others - you probably have a lot more chochma about what's going on here than you deem.

Any ideas? Any background you want to share that might shed light on all this?

Hatzlocha,

Dov