Shkoyach.
Appreciate the chizuk.
I hAd another big success last night b"h.
Will post it later.
Have a great day>

You too, have a great sober day, just like yesterday.
Mottel

Keep wrote on 24 Jul 2012 05:06:


I enjoyed that.

Keep it up Avraham! Im gonna read some of those stories b'li neder bc of you
Thanks

I mentioned another big success I had last night. Here it is:

I came home from playing ball and my wife was already sleeping. It was early, only about 9:15 PM. Not only was it early and I was basically free to do what I wanted but my wife also accidentally left her computer (which is ALWAYS locked) on and ready for use. I made up in my mind that this was the perfect night to go out to a strip club. There was nothing at that point that was gunna hold me back.
I showered (cold water of course, gotta keep halacha as I prepare to go to a makom znus right? go figure) quickly and got ready for my long awaited night out. I went on her computer to get the address of the one that wasn't too far and definitely not too close. I got the address and called up to confirm it was open.
The guy that answered the phone just sounded like the lowest, dirtiest, piece of garbage I have ever come in contact with. Every question was answered with a ton of attitude and obnoxiousness. I hung up the phone and just sat on my couch and thought. And thought.
I looked up and saw all of the pictures around my house of me, my wife and my son all smiling together. I thought about the guy I had just hung up with. I thought about spending time with him and people like him and then waking up in the morning to my son jumping into my bed.
I knew I was in the middle of an intense battle between both my Yetzers. I knew that whichever road I chose, I would look back to this night as a major pivot in my life.
I took a deep breath, and shut the computer (automatically locking it). I locked up my house, got into bed, smiled at my sleeping wife, thanked Hashem for stepping into the rink with me, and went to sleep.
I woke up this morning feeling better than I ever have in a very long time. I was flying all day today. I am smiling right now as I write this.
Thank you to everyone for all your chizuk and help.
Without you....this post would have been very different.

Layla Tov,
Avraham

Beautiful

Keep going in the right direction. Its remembering what will be AFTER acting out that always helps, focusing on what I get with this and what do I get with that. I saw this concept so much in your post, It was very.. refreshing and enjoyable. Thank you.

Keep GOING!!

Dear Avraham613,

Thanks for sharing that powerful story. It was so well written that I felt I was there with you, and I was moved to tears on the positive outcome B"H. Living through this experience, and sharing it, should give you (and all of us) tremendous chizzuk for the future.

Hatzlacha

MT

Avi!
I second JKG's in that it helps a great deal to "watch the movie till the end." I am glad to learn that you beat the Evil one this time around.
Also, did you try calling the management of that joint to complain about the rude bastard they have answering phones? I'm sure they would appreciate customer feedback, afterall he turned away a client with his rotten attitude.
I hate it when people are rude and obnoxious to me when all I'm trying to do is to give them my money.
On a bit more serious note, I get a feeling you haven't been completely honest with us.
You've been around the forum and GYE for over three years, if I recall. I find it hard to beleive that you've never gone to a strip joint or a massage parlor. Your toying with these ideas despite your participation here, shows (to me, anyways) that the "issues" you're trying to work on run much deeper than you're portraying.
So my question is: Is it fair to assume that you feel that it's just an inclination that you're battling? Afterall, you're a young, red-blooded male, and which young man doesn't obsess over going to places of ill-repute?
I've gone to my share of strip clubs. I remember being anxious about going, worrying about a "bully" attitude of security and doormen. I remember finding out that I overpaid for a particular service, and feeling taken advantage of by a working girl.
How dumb is this?! By default, those places take advantage of their customers. In most cases, patrons of such places are addicted and cannot stop going. There is no reason to be nice to junkies, or to provide "an excellent customer service". You have no choice but to go back, and there is plenty of us, ill men, out there, for them not to worry about a non-returning customer.
So while your victory last night is precious, because you takke didn't go anywhere, I think that it is insignificant in the larger picture, simply because you are not making any investment into the future.
Are you ready to concede that the pull you feel towards these places and activities does not come from a healthy place?
Are you willing to get well or are you just putting this on hold, till you find a friendlier pimp?
And finally, what fences are you putting in TODAY, on the heels of last night experience, so that next time you get an idea to go straying on your wife, you won't take it as far as showering, looking up a place, calling them, preparing the money, preparing an excuse for the wife, etc?
Mottel

Wow!
That was a major turnaround. Baruch Hashem!
Hopefully you'll get to the point where you intercept these hava aminas at an earlier stage -- as soon as the initial thought comes.

Glad to hear you're still on track.
Have a great clean day.

Avrohom,

Beautifull story. I'm also still struggling for basic sobriety, I find that the most important thing to take away from these types of successess is like you wrote: that you "thanked Hashem for stepping in the rink with me". It's soooo important to realize that I'm just a sick addict that Hashem is helping to get better. Somehow when I feel that all the way in my heart it gives me an inner calmness that I can't feel when I'm stuck alone with my own kochos. I saw once in the White Book that the yesod of all the 12 steps is humility, for us that means also to feel dependant only on Hashem - not on myself.

All the best!

These pimps one would call for services are all a bunch of nasty bit**. But our lusting doesnt stop bec. Of it. That is what i call "sick"

MAALIN wrote on 25 Jul 2012 21:16:

exactly the point I was trying to bring out. Thank you for that.

Thank you all for your beautiful feedback.
M.T - I am thrilled my story helps others, that gives me more chizuk than anything else...honestly.
Mottel - I was eagerly awaiting your brutally honest response. I am unclear though, what you are alluding to when you say " that the "issues" you're trying to work on run much deeper than you're portraying". Where are you going with that? Please clarify.
Also, in terms of making investments for the future, my davening is totally different than it ever war before. I have never been so honest with G-d, telling Him straight out that I WANT to be nichshol tonight after Maariv and I am begging him to make sure that I don't do anything stupid that I will regret. I have 2 partners that I text and even call regularly before and during my struggle that before 1 1/2 months ago, I would never even think about doing. And, i post more on this forum over the last few weeks than I ever have over the last 3 years.
So yea, there have been major investments and serious steps towards my full recovery that I am extremely proud of. 2 months ago, I would have been out that door very quickly. Are there other types of investments that you think I should be taking at this point?
Thanks,
Avi

Sweet how seeing reality for real and living in it as it really is, helps so much. Beautiful story.

Avraham613 wrote on 26 Jul 2012 01:28:

That's progress, I say. That's great!



Yes. For starters, being more honest with yourself, G-d, and us here, fellow travelers.
Which leads me to:


I'm glad you asked. This is a very important question. Not even so much the "toichon" of it, as the fact that you had to ask.
Let me say it as I see it. You seem to have been taking my loving kindness in stride, as a grown man. Here comes:
From your initial and follow-up posts one would infer that the "problem" you're trying to battle here is watching porn and masturbating. That you have fantasies about sex-workers, but that you've never strayed from your family.
But when one says "couple of months ago I'd be out the door", to me it means two months ago he's been out the door. I'm not critisizing your choice of drug - G-d knows I've done some of it in one form or another - but I think that it's important for you to face "the exact nature of your wrongs" and admit that you are a user of a very powerful drug called lust. Now, some of us used this drug with prostitutes, while others were home-locked junkies of porn and images. But unless we were ready to honestly tell ourselves AND other safe people what exactly our issues were, we could not begin to recover.
Nobody knows who you are. Could you honestly tell us the true nature of your addiction?
And then, once we realize it is an addiction, we can start by taking necessary steps so that we don't nurture the thought of going (back) to the strip joint all day from shacharis, and with all that tension come home, run for shower, phone, computer, because the only thought on our minds is acting out. And then G-d needs to step in to the rink and send us an angry pimp and a feeling of insecurity.
One fence I would suggest is to call someone first thing in the morning every day to renew your commitment to sobriety for the next twenty four hours. It does wonders for me.
Ok.
Your turn.
Love,
Mottel

To tell you the truth, I have no problem with being even more open and honest.
Unlike many, the nature of my "drug" is not necessarily masturbation or even porn. I almost never (thinking back a few years now) have a serious desire to view pornography and masturbate. Granted, when I was younger I did this on a regular basis, but in my more recent years it has not been the source of my struggle (at least I dont think).
What I struggle with now (the last 2 years probably) is this strange desire to develop these dumb inter-personal relationships with random girls. B"h I was never able to form anything serious. I never met anyone online that I kept any form of serious relationship to. I just have a taiva to chat with other random girls online and "experience" them at a strip club or something of the sort.
I never acted out with a girl that I met, never spoke to any more than once, maybe twice and definitely never developed any form of an emotional connection with them b"h. I dont even have a desire to masturbate when I talk to them. I have fell over the past 2 years and have gone to a strip club twice (over a year apart) and felt nauseously disgusting after both times (both prompted major clean streaks, the biggest I've had).
I feel that the desire to speak to other girls is seriously drawn back to my younger years when I spoke to and had relationships with a different girl every week (literally) and get a thrill out of meeting new ones.
To sum it up, it hasn't necessarily been masturbation that kills me (although admittedly, I have slipped a few times), but this desire to speak to other girls. There is no filter or accountability when going to a strip club which makes it very easy. It is only because of Hashem that I have only gone twice (the last time being December 2011).
So, I guess that gives everyone a better picture of the nature of my addiction.
Hope this is what you meant Mottel.
Thanks again,
Avi