So this is my introduction
Hello! Thank you for this site
i was really addicted to z'l and pornography for about 3 years, i went to israel and studied in yeshiva where i managed to "quit," meaning i stopped for a couple of months would have a fall once or twice then pick up again for a couple of months. bein hazmanim was especially difficult (since i had so much free time and if i would fail i would be too embarrassed/ashamed that i couldnt step foot in a beis medrish,) then in my third year when i was in america (im so afraid someone should figure out who i am i dont even want to write details) I had a falling out were i fell 3 times over 6 weeks, that killed me.. it ruined my learning and every time i fail in this area it makes me feel like one big fake, so i was determined to never sin in this regard again i remembered this site and got on a 90 day program, and this is how i became a revisiting guest to this site.. im currently at 113. Im actually very proud i made it through this peasch
but the reason i went ahead and FINALLY opened this account is bc this break even though i didnt do z'l a few days ago the place my family went to for pesach was by an oceanfront hotel, i couldnt leave the room bc everywere i went my eyes were molested with things i didnt want to see, so i basically locked myself in the room for most of the trip and got so frustrated that i gave up on watching my eyes and i flipped through the tv for as much garbage as i could find (too much free time on the break ruined my no tv commitment) and today i wasnt even planning on it but i was on the computer and i was like well if im never going to be able to watch this stuff again i should get one last dose before i quit for good (which is dumb thinking back on it) then i watched pornography for several hours something i havent done in years(still no z'l just watching) so now i realize that i have to get on this forum already, hope it helps
A main problem of mine is that i have alot of friends who were much worse than i was before yeshiva in israel and were involved physically with girls and now are learning full time yeshiva guys baal tshuva but myself, i grew up with very very low self confidence and self esteem, so i never had the courage to do what they did, and now after working on myself to the point that i could have the courage i feel like i missed out.... i know theres something flawed there and when i mentioned it to a rabbi, he told me that im lucky bc its much harder for them but that didnt do it for me. i needed to get that out
ok i hope that was a good introduction thanks

Have you gone through the handbook? I know that there is a 12 step meeting starting Monday don't worry about whatall your friends are doing. We are your friends here and were all in it together recovering one day at a time!

Just printed it!, I dont think ide be able to do a meeting..

Welcome, sevenup!
I know the story you told all too well, and I'm certain that there are other guys here who also do.
EvedofHashem25 is right-- we're all friends here and we're all working on our recovery together.
So, welcome aboard.
I wish you much continued hatzalacha on your recovery!!
-IGW

Thank you for sharing your painful story. We all understand that horrible two-faced shame you described, so you are amongst a bunch of guys, serious Yidden, who will be here for you if only you will keep posting and reaching out. There's so much chizuk and suggestions on this site. It can get a little overwhelming. So just go easy does it. Ask Hashem to help you stay clean and simple-minded just till lunchtime, and then to dinner time, and then till Hamapil. One little day at a time.

Today I really totally did a bad thing. I spoke disrespectfully to a neighbor. I talked down to him. I wrote him a note but he didn't get it. So I went to his house and delivered it and made amends and now it's all good. It bothered me all day. Hashem brought me the lesson of a lifetime. I still see myself as the shtarker. Even when I'm doing my anav act I see myself as superior. And that attitude, that I simply couldn't see in myself, entirely gets in the way of my relationship with "H. So learning about myself here on GYE has ultimately been about learning and practicing doing what He wants, what makes Him delight. I read someplace that oneg is the highest form of holyness. Some day, B'ez "H.

Hatzlacha in all you seek.

I liked that, 1daat.

Seven up,
I really feel with you, my story is a bit similar in the respect that I never had anything physical and even the hard-core pornography I haven't really gotten into B"H. Sometimes I feel similar to what you wrote at the end that those who fell really low have an easier time, they got to experience (and enjoy) all the Y"H has to offer, then sunk so far that it is obvious that they must break away, life simply cannot continue as is. When everything - family, friends, most importantly Yiddishkeit, is completely destroyed, the choice to leave is much easier.
But for us everything is a lot greyer, the Y"H can trap us easier.
I think that here is the idea of raising up the bottom to "reach rock-bottom without having to reach rock bottom" (see handbook).
I haven't offered any real help, listen to the experts that have finished breaking away, and ............. welcome.

My dear sevenup,
Your post is so beautiful. I am deeply moved by your commitment at the hotel before you let go. More importantly, your struggle is precious to Hashem. You have tremendous self control. With a little direction and support you will do amazing things. Just knowing that you aren't alone in your struggle is helpful. We're all going through similar struggles.

What ultimately happened at the hotel is unfortunately typical of this addiction. When we're good, we're very good. Once we give in one inch, all gehenim opens up. Our only hope is to stay way on top of our shmira.

You aren't missing out on anything. When the time comes, you will be zoche to a wonderful zivug and a very happy and fulfilling marriage without the scars your friends carry.

Have a great, clean day

Alex

I cant express how much gratitude I have to everyone here for helping me finally get it out there, its a tremendous relief.
AE your right just knowing I'm not alone makes me feel totally different. this morning i realized that coming to the website as a guest is a totally different world compared to joining and actually being a part of everything here.
mefatfeit I'm very happy that I'm not the only one with these feelings (not in a "misery loves company" kind of way more of a "whoa thank g-d im not crazy kind of way") and I think its exactly as you described it
Thank you everyone for the warm welcome!

For the sake of continuing to post (that's what KOP stands for right?) I wanted to say that since my last fall I've has several slips, from things which I feel are largely out of my control, Magazines laying around walking into a room with a tv. To stay in the room all day Ill go crazy to walk around I slip, trying to stay outside and busy as much as possible (GYE to the rescue! ;D ). b"h for out of town yeshiva..

I have some questions whatever anyone can help me out with would be great
-Has anyone dealt with physical symptoms of z'l?, I get tremendous anxiety from small triggers that last awhile, also very easily stimulated (I'm referring to a bus ride car ride etc.) very frustrating and embarrassing I thought it would go away after all this time but I'm still standing on my tippie toes a lot more frequently than I would like.

Also I've seen mentioned on the forum that selfishness is a common tag-along partner with this addiction and I was wondering why that is? I've been noticing lately that I'm more selfish than I'm willing to admit (that's figurative of course because I do admit it )

I feel like I might need therapy but I'm too shy/embarrassed to ask and I don't know who to speak to or how to approach my parents, maybe I should disguise it and ask for a therapist for self esteem or anger?

Thanks
P.S. Probably wont be able to post for at least 2 weeks (no comp.)

Hi there,

I completely relate to the anxiety surrounding triggers. When I have a trigger around me or if I'm reading a book and I get triggered, I get really anxious and my stomach doesn't feel too good.
I try to just think of something else and breathe deeply and calmly. It helps a lot of the time, but sometimes it's just hellish and it stays with me for a while. This is really bad for me and I'm working on just accepting situations as they are. Instead of getting upset when there's a trigger, I accept that this is what is and that I can't control the situation, I can only control myself. This helps me calm down.

As for the selfishness, AlexEliezer told me something that's so true. Our whole addiction is one big ego trip. The whole thing is about taking from everyone. When we go to the supermarket, we choose the checkout lane with the prettiest cashier. When we're nice to some girl, it's so that we can fantasize afterwords about her. Even the "kindnesses" we do are to fulfill our addictive needs. When you're taking from every woman you see, of course you'll become selfish.
If you're looking at women all day and/or mast*****, your only focus the whole day is you.
If you want to fix that, it's time to stop taking and start giving.

I would recommend therapy from personal experience. And yes, you can just tell your parents it's for self esteem, which is not lying because your self esteem will get much better when you deal with this addiction. You can also say that you need help with "giving"- also true.

Hatzlacha!

just read this in the SA whitebook, I think you'll relate:

Toxic reactions to alcohol and drug abuse are common knowledge. What we might call the toxicity of lust becomes especially apparent to us in recovery. We become increas­ ingly aware of the poisonous effects of lust on our thinking and behavior. We have heard members say, "I'm allergic to lust," and we know the person is trying to describe the toxic reaction that occurs whenever he or she takes a visual or fantasy "drink" without even acting out. In sobriety, once we have withdrawn from lust and then let it back in, the toxic effect is felt immediately and strongly. We can tolerate less of it than ever, and it produces a greater disturbance. Our sexaholism doesn't stand still; it progressively worsens.
"I could see a girl in a bikini on a billboard five years ago and it wouldn't bother me; now, I go to pieces and lose my mind over it." "Lust throws my whole system out of whack. I lose my equilibrium, my control, and have to recover as if from a poison."

So ive been having mixed feelings about doing therapy because i dont want to gp therapy for anything really meaning i dont want to tell my parents i have anxiety i dont want to tell them i have low self esteem. im just not comfortable with that

wtvr anyhow i havent been able to post for a while, and now im posting. i almost fell about an hour ago i by a nes got onto this website, thank g-d. I want to fix these issues already what is it where do they come from and i would like to try and fix it myself without going to meetings or therapy. any suggestions let me know. ive gone so far 185 days without masturbation with 2-3 slips with catching myself and p*rn about 2 months. just giving the update.

JKG

im also looking at a bein hazmanim potentially jobless and with lots of free time on my hands im looking at whats going to be a slaughter. man-slaughter, and that man is me. on the alter. being slaughtered. by a stupid pleasure that kills me afterwards.

oh also i was thinking an hour ago to try and stop myself from falling, that any of the pleasures you can have bisur you can have bheter and i was like ok and when is that in a million years wtvr 1-3 but until then im going crazy with this.

also ide like to refer to my first post when i mentioned how my friends did all the worst things and now they seem to be just fine. Its driving me up a wall i have to deal with this garbage this nisayon every day im home i go crazy after a day or two and i dont know when i want toge t married im indecisive and i get anxiety and i feel like i need approval , and theres just one friend of mine who im jealous of (not all the time it depends on how much i realize that ,i didnt lose out on anything, hits me at the time) who did things worse then me does what he wants with no fear of approval wears what he wants is decisive he knows what he wants from life, he barely gets nervous, and hes recently married. i think to myself who is more scarred him or me? when alexeliezer wrote that i wont have to deal with the scars my friends carry that helped me tremendously. but then i fell and i keep slipping and i have such a hard time watching my eyes in places that are considered clean and they have it easy in places that are considered "not-as-clean" so now what, am i really less scarred? my scars have scars lol anyhow thats my rant for now hope y'all enjoyed gn or gm or good evening if your in that part of the world right now

Shaya Ostrov writes in his book called The Menucha Principle in Shidduchim, Dating, & Marriage that what he gets most often from couples and people dating is "Our situation doesn't seem to be as wonderful as the other one." He asserts (he's a marriage counselor for years and years) that it simply isn't true, first, and second, one automatically sees faults in his own situation and idealizes the situations of others.
That's so far as your friend.
So far as you, welcome back, and I can relate to not having done the things the people around me have done, and, to be honest, I can relate to the jealousy as well. But, having been in shidduchim for a more than a year, and having done some introspection (Many thanks to GYE for that!) I can also HONESTLY say that I was not ready to be married during that time, and I thank Hashem from the bottom of my heart for not inflicting me on anyone until this point.
See Rabbi Twersky's thoughts on being married before having the addiction under control.
alexeliezer wrote on 19 Apr 2012 15:05:

" i would like to try and fix it myself without going to meetings or therapy."
You would like to try and fix it yourself? So would I. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen for me. I need others in order to fix it. As long as I tried to maintain control over my life, the worse my addiction got, because my addiction stemmed from my need to control. Besides, you yourself said you needed therapy, my guess is that was more honest than this. Think about it.

Hatzlacha in all your endeavors! KOT!
Meir

A few points.
As Meir E-Tek mentioned, all we need to concern ourselves with is, well, ourselves. It's not helpful to look at what our friends have or seem to be getting away with, any more than it is logical to look at the goyim and see how easy they have it. The answer that makes all these questions go away is that there is an olam ha'emes. The scars I referred to are mostly invisible. They are on the neshama. But a scarred neshama may have more difficulty sensing kedusha.

I have done all the things your friend has done, starting at age 16. I had the kind of girlfriend guys dream about. Without going into arichus (which I'd be happy to do on the phone some day), that child's adult play led to major problems, poor choices, and serious, lifelong consequences affecting not just my own life. You envy those who have partaken in forbidden relations, I envy those who never tasted it.

I've been through therapy a few times in my life cuz I was such a screwed up teen and young adult. It was all very helpful. None of the therapists picked up on my addiction (it wasn't so well known back then). Perhaps this is why when I discovered GYE and learned that I [s]was[/s] am an addict, everything was in place for recovery, and B"H, one day at a time, I haven't fallen since.

Moving on to your other issue, I can honestly say that I haven't ogled a single female (except my wife), including in pics, in over 3 years. No lingering glances. Not once. Because I know it's poison. And I know this is the cornerstone of my sobriety. I'm not stam boasting. I want you to know that it can be done, by taking it one nisayon at a time. I don't watch TV, and almost never watch movies (only those with almost no women, and I don't look at the women.) I can't read magazines or the newspaper because they're just too dangerous to my delicate sobriety.

Being clean and sober from this is my top priority, because without it, I have no life.

Allright so I want to address a bunch of these points,
I want and I don't want to do therapy, I WANT to because I feel like I might actually get out of this mess and he can help me out, I Don't want to because, I don't want to ask my parents to go to therapy a-because then maybe the word will get out my siblings will find out and ill feel like a "screw-up" who needs therapy , also my parents and I are having a bit of a clash of opinion so to speak about what ill be doing next year and they have been clear that next year I won't be getting financial support, bluff or not I don't think nows the right time to ask for money, to take money from my rabbi would require I open up about this issue which is not something ide like to do. Also I realized the last time I went to therapy that no-one else can fix me I can't just hopw that someone else will take care of my issues, although I may need a groups help etc. Relying on a therapist as if he's my saviour reminds me of the chovot halevavot that says any time you put your trust in other things hashem removes his hasgacha from you.So the solution I've thought about would be joining dovid chaims phone conference, I didn't want to do it but now I feel the need I pashut don't feel the strength to beat this on my own.

Also it helps that my good friend for many years and I recently discovered that we were both a part of gye. We spoke about the problem not so long even but speaking to another person live about this helped me tremendously. Also we made a deal whoever messes up has to pay the other guy 50$ and tell him within 24 hrs.

I realize that I'm jealous because I still want those things and I want to stop wanting it I just don't care anymore, I feel sick with this and I can finally hear what everyone has been saying about not focusing on the other guy.

Its at a point when I don't feel its possible to overcome this. I try and fail constantly and repetedly. So there's an undercurrent of hopelessness. Knowing that there are guys who did it helps
Ok so for now that's it can someone direct me to duvid chaims phone conference? Times and. How to do it.