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TOPIC: I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 1219 Views

I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 18 Jul 2011 02:34 #111460

I spent the last year learning emuna. everyone tells me I should go into kiruv. The problem is , emuna, and yidishkiet bichlal is not an intelectual decision, it is purely emotional. all my experiences with hashem's representatives have been negative.[ps I only went to the top yeshivos( think stamford falsburg)] I don't feel like hashem was or ever is there 4 me.  most of all it bothers me that i am otherwise very happy with my life and accompleshints. I dont feel like it will be solved with ''finding myself''. a
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Re: I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 18 Jul 2011 07:22 #111481

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I once read that Rav Mendel Kaplan told a bochur with emunah issues to learn 2 mikra v1 targum, its a segulah for emunah. dont know how that works, but that's the koach of torah i guess. BTW I dont think that youre problem is unique, I think alot of people feel the same way, they just arent bold enough to admit it. You need to find "representatives" of Hashem who will give you the oppryunity to experience the warmth and beauty of Hashem and his yiddishkeit.
ישראל אע"פ שחטא ישראל הוא
If you're connected above, you won't fall down below - Reb Shlomo
ולבי חלל בקרבי
לולא האמנתי לראות בטוב ה' בארץ חיים
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Re: I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 18 Jul 2011 09:51 #111489

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I hear you!

I too 'hate' g-d and am working at experiencing Yidishkiet positively.

What helped was to focus on areas of Yidishkiet that have meaning for me and don't have negative associations (e.g. Shabbos)

Also I read up a lot about how virtually everything the Torah prescribes is for our benefit. plain and simple. there are a million mekoros for this...
Hashem doesn't benefit at all from anything we do...
I try to follow Yidishkiet not because I have to but because it is a better life!!

For example if I am tempted in kedusha related things I keep in mind that the better I am with this the better my marriage will be. I will love my wife much more and be happier. Also I will feel proud of who I am which is an amazing thing....

Hashem set kedusha restrictions for our happiness and well being the more I stick to it the happier I'll be...

I had a negative upbringing and authority figures were always demanding and intolerant this got transferred over to Hashem who can often feel like he is just demanding and intolerant...
I am trying to realize and internalize that this is not the case... I wonder if your parents where tolerant and loving. Did they comfort you when things were difficult? If not then this may be part of where your issue comes from....

Just my thoughts....
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Re: I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 18 Jul 2011 11:06 #111493

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Maybe if we understand a bit more what He wants from us, it can help us believe that He loves us  :D

www.guardureyes.com/GUE/tips/baalhasulam.asp
Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
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Re: I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 18 Jul 2011 14:44 #111508

I am moved beyond words that you have taken the time to reed my post and respond . I am taking the time to read through the responses. thank you so very much!
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Re: I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 18 Jul 2011 17:56 #111518

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Dear sam kolvari,

In your other posts you refer to people who do not masturbate as heroes. You wrote that Hashem must love and be so very proud of one who used to masturbate, but stopped - even just for a time. As such, I would like to share something with you as a man who masturbated, used porn, and did many other things for over fifteen years and yet has not masturbated nor had a wet dream for over fourteen years:

I am no saint. Neither are the others who have been clean for a while. In fact, I have met many who have been clean for a few years but as a result of not having the porn and masturbation to satisfy themselves, lashed out in rage or frustration with Hashem and people....until they really started recovering. They needed real recovery in order to really grow up. And that took real time.

The reason I am writing this at all is because you wrote of your emunah problems. And you wrote that on a forum for people with lust problems. I respect you a great deal for your candor, especially about opening up about the emunah issue - but doing it on a forum for sex problems has got to mean something, no? So...

I make a big assumption based on the fact that you are posting on a sex and lust recovery forum, that you have some kind of masturbation problem yourself....just a guess. I also see that you seem to have placed non-masturbators on a pedestal and gave them nice chizzuk in your other (very nice) posts, saying that Hashem must be so loving and proud with them since they do not masturbate.

Then you wrote above that emunah is largely (or entirely) an emotional decision or state - and that you have emunah problems!

It seems reasonable to me to make the following wild guess:

You masturbate yourself, hate yourself for it, are sure that Hashem must despise you for it, and as a result do not really want to believe in Him, at all. Thus, you are vexed with what you call, "emunah problems".

In reality, true emunah is partially intellectual - and it is rather your conflict with emunah  that is actually the thing that's "purely emotional" here.

So, if I am right about any of this and if you are not hurt at all by what I wrote (for I mean it in 100% love and have nothing to gain otherwise!), then I ask you to please do the following:

Detail here or with one of the GYE people, or with another safe person you trust, exactly what your sex and lust problems are. If you have let them all go and are truly free of porn, fantasy, and masturbation yourself for a while now, then explain to me when you emunah problems started.

If not, then I suggest to you that the lust issue and the emunah issue are totallt intertwined. If that is the case, then I submit to you that Hashem has brought you here - and perhaps to lust in general - as a way to finally learn real emunah and to finally really be with Him the way you seem to know in your own heart that you should be. You must know it, otherwise what is vexing you so about it?

Hatzlocha, stay in touch here.

- Dov
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 19 Jul 2011 03:59 #111578

  • ninetydays
Wow Dov - That was a little wild what you did with so little information.

But I do agree that having problems with masturbation really blinds us in our intellectual pursuit of emunah. Like Maslow's hierarchy of needs if we are not ready to emotionally accept G-d and have emunah then we cannot hope to come close to Him intellectually.

Sometimes it works the other way where we are so broken that we come to him from an emotional standpoint and we completely ignore the intellectuallity of it all An addict who is in terrible pain; he will ask God to save him even though he did not go through every possiblity of intelligent design.

ninety
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Re: I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 19 Jul 2011 19:18 #111646

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Dov you allways have it right but this time I'm really impressed you just figured it out from his 2 line post
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Re: I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 19 Jul 2011 20:58 #111657

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Thanks for the kind words, but:

Now wait a second there....who says anything I wrote is true at all? It really was just a searching guess, with hopes of awakening openness - even if all I wrote was dead wrong. I just hope it did not insult sam kolvari in any way. Let's see what he does with it....this is interesting, no?
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 19 Jul 2011 21:46 #111663

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I don't feel love for my parents, but I do feel love for HaShem.

As a child and a parent, I'm constantly working on understanding these relationships. Loving a parent is completely out of gratitude, loving a child is due to your ability to give to them. It's easier to love someone you give to than someone from whom you receive - it's a matter of emotional investment.

I've always felt abandoned by my parents (broken home, had to self-educate myself, etc.) and therefor find it hard to feel gratitude for anything they did provide. I'm constantly caring for my child so I find it very easy to love them.

Gd is a giver, we owe everything we have to Him. But that doesn't mean it's easy to love Him. It's hard to remember that every breath is from Him. If I make a profitable business deal, I find it easy to say "Thank Gd!". If I lose internet connection for three days and end up with a backup of angry clients, I don't find it as easy. The issue really is my lack of ability to realize that my "lack" of internet is a gain in some other way. Perhaps I was meant to spend more time with my family or work on things around the house during that time; perhaps it was very important that I had the extra help in guarding my eyes during that time. I don't know. But this is where the idea of "trust" comes in. Since it's very hard to see Gd's plan, we have to trust that everything is for the best and we're not just chess pieces in some fun game of His.

That being said, even if I was able to find a way to always feel gratitude to Gd, doesn't mean I'll end up loving Him. The key is finding a way to give back to Gd. If you can give, you can invest and if you can invest you can love. So, by using the following definition of love, "What's important to YOU is (now) important to ME", I'm able to learn to love Gd. I first have to see what's important to Gd, which usually involves checking what is written in the Torah. Once I realize what makes Gd happy, I can then speak to Him and say, "I'm doing this for you, so I can learn to love you."

After a long day I don't want to stay up late to speak with my wife, but I have an obligation. So I do it anyway and it in turn builds love. Eventually I want nothing more than to stay up and listen to my wife. I also don't want to get up early in the morning to speak to Gd, but I know it makes Him happy, so I do it, and sure enough it builds love.

My reply to you is simple: Love is finding out what is important to someone else and doing it, regardless of what it means to you. In this case, it would mean finding out what Gd wants and doing it for Him.

Because we're human, it's not so easy to only be a giver, we often need some level of taking. But in order to take without destroying love, there are a couple of things to keep in mind. First of all, you can receive, but don't take. Don't expect to be given anything, because if you do and it doesn't reach you, you'll experience the equation of Expectation + Reality = Disappointing. By training yourself not to expect anything from anyone, you'll also build an attitude of gratitude, which is item #2 of "things to keep in mind". By having gratitude, you'll experience a boost of energy than enables you to be more of a giver - until you one day reach the level where you can give unconditionally.

Give Gd what He needs, thank Gd for what He gives, through this you will find love. If you're not ready to try this on Gd, try it on a friend or spouse, experience human love and then go for spiritual love. You can also try it on yourself by giving your body what it really wants - sleep, healthy food, exercise, etc.

Thanks for posing the question, typing this out really has helped me think a ton. I hope it helps you too!
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Re: I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 21 Jul 2011 05:24 #111850

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Where is sam?
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 04 Aug 2011 13:51 #113446

Here is Sam.    Thank you everyone so much!      I was crazy busy and was not in a place to be able to give this sight my full attention. I hope to be able to now.          As per above poster, yes. My yiddishkeit fell off a cliff when I lost control masturbating. It was a reality check. I was living in the oilam hatoira even though it didn't make sense for me, b/c i would do anything for hashem. if i spoke lashon haro, even then i had fruma cheshboinas, I was letting myself because i had  to chill to be able to learn etc. Comming up against a chayvei missa and being absolutely incapable of conquering it, despite trying every trick I ever heard of, changed the eequation. I was obviously not holding by being a meshoreis hashem.soon i started loosing my relationship with him and i started very not liking savening to him. I don't go to minyan anymore.
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Re: I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 04 Aug 2011 14:31 #113454

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dov wrote on 18 Jul 2011 17:56:


If not, then I suggest to you that the lust issue and the emunah issue are totallt intertwined.


- Dov


Dov:Wow! so True Dov. Btw, Dov, u and I have alot in common, meaning in our thought process. I was reading my thoughts when i read your post.

Sam: Wow, I can relate to you in the way of being a holy yeshiva bachur and at the same time having hardships in m***. I also went to a top yeshiva in Lakewood. But i remained strong in my beleif in hashem. Maybe thats because im a ba'al teshuva and I love Hashem, but yes, i also do have problems with emunah at times and partly because i have addiction problems. But Sam, I request of you as a fellow yeshiva-man, forget all of ur negative experiences and move forward, take the good out of ur past and create an even better future. Dont loose all of the Kedusha u got in ur earlier years. And no, you did not loose it, because Torah does not vanish that quickly, if u truly return, all of the Toirah u learnt is there. I beleive in you Sam, we all do, and u can do it!!!
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Re: I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 04 Aug 2011 14:36 #113456

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sam

please listen to rav simcha bunim cohens chovos halvovs shiur

719-906-6400

1 for english
4 for mussar
6 for r'sb cohen

there  is a new shiur every thursday nite

it is perfect  for yeshiva oilam

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Re: I don't feel love for Hashem. please try to change that 04 Aug 2011 15:43 #113470

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bardichev wrote on 04 Aug 2011 14:36:

sam

please listen to rav simcha bunim cohens chovos halvovs shiur

719-906-6400

1 for english
4 for mussar
6 for r'sb cohen

there  is a new shiur every thursday nite

it is perfect  for yeshiva oilam
Thanks Reb b!!

And thanks koskecher for sharing that (I can't pronounce your name right, sorry). Stay sober no matter what. Then learn how to stay that way. Love you.
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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