Hello all. I must admit that I needed a break and have not been on this website in a few weeks. I am not sure if I am in the process of healing or sinking. My life is continuously changing and not sure what Gd wants from me. No doubt people on this site have their opinions but I feel it would be more productive to focus on people's needs and less on personal bias. I have been working on my own ability to listen and realize one of my key goals is to learn humility. Once I stop believing that I am in control then it it becomes less likely that I will repeat my addictive behavior cycle. Just a thought. Chaim

chaimchuna wrote on 09 Aug 2011 18:19:


That was beautiful, thank you Chaim. I am in the exact same place you describe. Let's keep working on this one thing, brother. And keep sharing here and stay sober one day at a time.

...and a great thought at that!

Thanks for posting.

--Elyah

Nice to hear from you CC

Have an easy fast

Eli

One thing I have certainly learned, if not in life then at least in these forums, is not to judge others and not to trust myself until the day before I die.  The stories here regarding incarceration are extremely important for me, not to get arrogant, and to see how much is at risk if addiction is not treated before it spirals out of control.  I doubt very few people came out of their mothers womb saying they would like to be addicts when they are older and would like to spend years of their lives fighting for freedom and going through the legal system.  It's pure craziness to choose such a life.  If it's any consolation, some studies now show that Schizophrenics are able to heal themselves using similar methods as espoused on this site.  If really crazy people can heal themselves, certainly addicts can do so as well. Again thank you for your sharing your story CC, out of the ashes of your misery you may have actually helped a number of people such as myself, drive home the importance of recovery and living a true spiritual life.

ontheedgeman wrote on 10 Aug 2011 04:13:


So? It's crazy. So what? I have never met an addict who stopped simply because he realized his lifestyle was crazy. Did it stop you? Or did you see the insanity and keep trying to 'get it right this time'?

All the ones who I know who are sober now, have come to the conclusion that they could not afford continue the crazy lifestyle even for one more minute. Including me. If I could masturbate and lust my brains out today, I probably would. And no matter how much wisdom and joy I get in recovery, I believe that I'd revert back to all the garbage if I really could afford it. But I cannot. The pain of living it through has taught me that.

And I work my 12th step here on GYE and in SA meetings primarily so that I do not forget that I cannot afford it. It is not wisdom, yir'as Shomayim, nor goodness that i believe is my deepest motivator - it's just enlightened self-interest through finally suffering enough. 




I know you mean well and are relating real information about real crazy people. But as for me, I can honestly say that I never healed myself. I can prove that because it is obvious that if I possessed that ability, I'd have done it decades before Hashem saved me through SA.

And given all the righteous guilt (and I mean truly righteous) people open up about here on GYE, I see before us a sea of people who are sincerely incredibly motivated to stop...but do not.

When they finally get sober is it because they suddenly got wiser and more powerful? I do not believe so. I think they simply start getting the heck out of G-d's way, for a change. "Ein ani v'hu y'cholim lador b'makon echad." And that is an entirely new way of living for them deep on the inside that they may not even realize they picked up along the way, simply by finally being broken. 

Leiv nishbar v'nidkeh Elokim lo sivzeh.

It doesn't say a tzaddik, rosho, ba'al teshuvah, or chochom...just broken. That is all that addicts need in order to really get started, in my experience.

Dov,

You say the emes.  I truly believe the self motivator is complete disgust with oneself.  The criminal justice system in my life was the wake-up call after being hit over the head for years by G-d in less severe ways.  If change was simply turning a switch off as the criminal justice system would naively like to believe then mental health experts would be put out of business.  Each day is a struggle and with G-d's help I make it from minute to minute.  My other motivator is to look at my children and say to myself that I want to leave a good legacy. 

chaimchuna , I can't agree with you any more. My trip through the courts, prison and the aftermath has humbled me beyond belief. My motivation is my wife and family, there is nothing I would do to put them through the horrors of tthe last 3 years again, I thank Hashem every day that they have stood by me through this. I too can look back over the last years and can see how Hashem has tried to  show me how disgusting my ways were and how it was affecting my family but I ignored it.
Each day is a struggle but with Hashem's help I make it through. I know my future is not in my hands , it is in Hashem's divine plan, realizing this and truly believing this without doubt is hard at times.

I could not have really started recovery to save my kids' lives. I would have really, really wanted to...but would not have succeeded in the end. I eventually would have fooled myself into 'giving in', in order to save my own life. Huh?

Cuz as bad as I knew my acting out was for me, my marriage, and my kids' upbringing, when I am actively acting out and using my drug, I am given to it. I then feel absolutely sure in my very gut that whatever I desire in that moment is 100% in my very best interest. No matter what the Torah or my rebbi or anyone else says, I feel that I need it. I feel no doubt in the matter then. And nobody can tell me that I do not. Maybe they do not - but I feel I do. It's like someone telling me "oh don't be afraid," when I am falling. Ridiculous. I do not care if you are a novi, my wife, my children, or even Moshe Rabbeinu - you cannot be in my heart and body, and they speak loudly and clearly to me. And they are sick.

That is an addict.

So, yeah, use whatever seichel and foresight you can use. But I would not depend much on your decency or intellect here. If you are an addict, they are road kill when the time comes...

If you are an addict, then this stuff will destroy your life and kill you, period. So you need Hashem to pull you out as only He can. And He only does it for today, and that is more than enough, cuz that is all we ever really have.

Is this just philosophy, or can you sink your teeth into this by putting it into action somehow?

I compeletely verify what dov wrote on  his last post.I can be compeletly in love with my wife so intimate so connected.I can feel really responsible for my children,so giving so there for them.Still if I am just looking around or just in a park I will have automatic reactions stimulations INSANE? yeah I know thats what I tell myself and that does not help me WHAT?COME ON? I am not in control I surrender.

Welcome to all my holy bothers who I have not had a chance to welcome personally. 

I judge no one and only am here only to offer support and share the very little I learned about my own addiction.

I feel for all of you. I feel deeply for those who are hurting deeply.

I have pain from lost oppurtinites in my life. Things I lost because of my involment with porn but be'h it is nothing compared to what is being shared here.

I am sure you all know about the 12 steps and SA. If not I ask you to explore it.

Many who fell far found serenity and a happier kind of life in the 12 steps.

This might sound like funny talk.You might think I need a job, some respect and a sembalance of normalicy. Why is this nut talking about being "happy"? I did not come here to hang out with flakes and hippies. I have real issuess that need solutions.

Good point but the 12 steps in a foundation for new kind of life.

Many people who fell very far and embraced the 12 steps were glad they fell, because it gave them a whle new life. I do not promise that for you but I think the program does.

I ahve more to write but I know that I be'h do not have the depth of pain that you have and do not feel it is right to lecture to you.

Where ever you are if you see a Jew on the street corner tommorow looking like he wants to hug you, it might be me.

That didn't sound like a lecture, but like dvorim hayotz'im min haleiv.

Hi there, brother.

Hi Dov

Good to see at least one old face here.

Along the lines of connecting to Hashem as Dov has spoken about, I want to share my religious moment of last week.  A non-jew in my group therapy (I will call him "Jim") spoke about how he was secluded in a side room while the judge and lawyers for both the prosecution and his defense were discussing his imminent prison sentence involving a sex crime.  Jim who is a master electrician decided at that moment that he was not going to prison and chose on the spot to take his life before he was called back into the court room to hear his sentence.  As a master electrician, he has wired and rewired houses and buildings many times over.  As he was wiring the electrical outlet in the side room of the court to a metal strip attached to near-by window, his intent was to hold onto the metal strip and electrocute himself to death.  As planned, he grabbed onto the metal bar and immediatetely felt the vibrations of the electrical current running through his body.  Simultaneously, he kept saying to G-d, "Let me go,  Let me go!!" (Meaning, "Let me pass onto the next world and die in this world").  Instead, he was somehow thrown by the electrical current into the wall and was subsequently discovered by the court officers slumped on the ground but ALIVE!  Jim used this experience as a valuable lesson to learn that G-d often gives us what we want but not exactly as we imagine it and therefore, in hindsight, we do not always know what we need until we look back and reflect on G-d's interaction in our lives.  In other words, Jim kept screaming, "Let me go" and Hashem-let him go of the metal bar to LIVE.  In the end, Jim states that as horrible of an experience 4 years of prison was to bear, he also sees those 4 years of incarceration as the best years of his life because he was transformed from an extremely shallow and uncaring person to a deeply thought out and person of substance.  Again, Jim states that G-d gave him what he needed even if it involved a prison sentence.  I must say that after listening to Jim, a non-jew deliver his prespective of how G-d has worked in his life, I WAS BLOWN AWAY.  I felt like a godol was talking to me as Jim turned a corner that most of us do not ever envision or desire to go down.  Not sure if my words convey the power of the moment, but I was quite taken. 

Thank you that was a beautiful post.