no no no....
i cant help u,  have no clue how, i am addicted my self. dov knows how hes gonna help u soon, if he is not gonna answer me in my thread.

ppl know facts.
u were talking to small girls, that told u they were small.
and u told us u had no intenttion for it, u just didnt wanna waste a partner to chat, and u knew she is not a girl less then 18 cause u spoke to her o the phone, we believe u.
and i am impressed that your wife that was hurted and cheated, still did believe you, cause the women i know usually are problematic in such situations.

i cant help u.
but please live the room not because of me.... i was talking to u out of curiosity, not for to help u, and i thank u for the information.
wait for dov.
sorry .
i have no reason why not to believe u.

laag, please try to be more tactful with people... I have noticed a few times that you scared people off or hurt them because you are not careful what you say. I know you don't mean it, but you have to be more careful please.

laagvokeles wrote on 20 Jul 2011 21:08:

i realised that....
ill never talk to newcomers again when the issue is delicated like in this time....
ill wait till theyll know me better, and see i am just a idiot with no filters in my fingers...

its really a shame, a jewish kid, that hashem loves.

anyway this all issue of underage in my eyes its only a legal matter not a moral matter.
there is by the sefaradim places where they marrie the daughter by 16 (mexico), and מדינא דגמרא there is no problem at all.
yitzchak got married with a 3 year old
a father can sell a אמה עבריה till she is 12 and the אדון can marrie her....

any way ill not be the welcomer any more in delicated cases ill live it for good heart ppl like yosef hatzadik or zemmy, or to smart ppl that בלי עין הרע we have soooooooooo many in here......  ;D

any way rabbi guard i really did not mean it (in case he left cause of me.... more ppl posted...any way....)
ליבי דאב בקרבי על מה ששלחתי יד בנפש ישראל ללא מחשבת זדון כלל וכלל

p.s.
if dov wouldnt have a job and would be able to sit in front of the screen 24 7 it wouldnt happen....

Dear CC.  Our stories are very close:  sting operation, arrest, jail, trial, huge amounts of money, license now monitored by probation, required psychotherapy.  I think I'm qualified to say that I understand.  I have seven months left to my probation.

The accusations made against you, although false, were more true in my case (I have to be circumspect).

I am pleading with you.  Please, don't abandon GYE at least as a resource.  Even if you don't post, at least give gye a chance with its other resources.

I am glad for you that you have such a wife.  I have kept it all secret until just a few weeks ago, and so I've had to go through all this alone, except for the guys here at gye, my therapist, my rav and abest friend.  The entire accusations against me from the district attorney's office is posted on the internet.  I understand the shame. 

If you want to send me an email or pm, I am totally available.  I will gladly give you my phone numbers, and I don't have caller ID on any of them, as they're all ancient.

It would be good for me too to talk with someone else who is going through this, so you would be doing me a favor also.

Have you talked with your Rav?  It's a tough step, but it can transformative.  My rav said to me while I was crying, having told him my story, "Hashem didn't make t'shuvah for tzadikim".  He went into his office and brought out a beautiful gift for me, reassured me this would go no farther, not even to his wife, and that it would never affect our relationship.  That really made things easier for me.

Finally, I must tell you that I have a relationship with Hashem I never had before.  Some days better than others, some days I daven like a dog.  but we talk now.  It's quiet inside.  When the first little urge comes I usually end up at gye talking about what's bothering me.  Now more and more I talk with other real live people. 

Again, please let me know if you want to connect in some way outside the posting threads.

Laagvokeles-
"anyway this all issue of underage in my eyes its only a legal matter not a moral matter"
If you mean by this that there is no moral difference between having relations with an adult and a 12 year old, then you need to get professional help, fast!
Please read this, haemtza.blogspot.com/2011/04/when-good-people-do-nothing.html

baalteshuva wrote on 23 Jul 2011 18:08:


Baalteshuva,

Did it occur to you that "underage" is not just 12 years old, rather 16 or 17 y.o. as well? If you can truly say that having moral issues has prevented you from lusting after any female under the age of 18, you probably don't belong here...

I would also like to remind all of you that the OP requested that the posters focus on the similarities and not the differences between his narrative and their own stories.

E

ben durdayah

are you missing something? laagvokeles tried to prove that pedophilla  is not an immoral issue  by bringing in yizchak avinu "yitzchak got married with a 3 year old"
Did it occur to you that laagvokeles brings an example of a 3 year old, not a 17 year old?
To have a lust problem with underage girls is one thing, to actually molest a child c'v is a completely different matter. And now laagvokeles tries to prove that there is nothing immoral with having sex with a three year old and brings non other then our holy  forefather yizchak as an example!
And you are trying to defend him?

We are living in dark, dark times about a year ago someone's thread on this forum got locked because he said that masturbation does not have negative mental effects.
Now someone says that child molestation is perfectly fine according to the torah, I argue against this and then you ben durdayah  defend him?

HASHEM PLEASE SAVE US!!!!!!

the torah that allowes sexual relation with a girl is only if the father agrees, the torah knows a girl has no capacity of decidig for her self thats why only if the father allowes her and even takes for her the kidushin than its fine.

if a person seduces a girl he has to pay a fine קנס and he has to marrie her even if he dosnt want

yitzchak avinu married a 3 year old and did not have sexual relation till much muh later.

no body is suporting child molestation....
every body is against it, and i would recomend the goverment should kill such person.
למען ישמעו ויראו
dont be silly

i

Laagvokeles-
Can you please tell me what exactly you mean by
"anyway this all issue of underage in my eyes its only a legal matter not a moral matter."
And why on earth do you bring yitzchak as an example if, as you now say "yitzchak avinu married a 3 year old and did not have sexual relation till much muh later."

i was tryeeng to make a point, that i dont care about how society today looks at things, wich is;
society in our days sees in sexual relation with a minor as wrong on a moral way, but the torah sees no problem in the actual sexual relation, no diffrence a woman no diffrence a girl, both are not allowed to be seduced, but yes a rational marriage.

my example with yitzcak was to bring out the point that there is no problem getting married even with a 3 year old.
now the reas?n why he didnt have sex with rivkah is because even (in those times) the sex act was posible from when a girl was 3 (i dont know if today also) but she cant get pregnant, so yitzchak did not want.

a father can sell hes daughter to be a SLAVE wich if the owner wants he can take her for a wife even before she is 12.

by the way in the arab countrys its still very much so

baalteshuva wrote on 23 Jul 2011 18:08:


I would venture that the ensuing discussion is likely to be at cross-purposes - one side will focus upon predatory behavior, and the other on variable maturity - physical, emotional and sexual.  I understand that the story linked resonates with you, specifically.

Paedophilia tends to cross both vulnerability and age, mixing arbitrary laws and moral issues.  Politicians routinely get caught out when discussing where lines should be drawn.

I strongly suggest decoupling the concept of "predatory behavior" and "underage sex" - as well as "underage lust".  There is absolutely nothing strange or odd about desiring a well-developed 16 year old girl.  Nothing.

Some people, today, might be repulsed once they hear the age, and that is understandable and perhaps good.  But it should not be a moral compass for the average person, in my opinion.  That is unreasonable to expect, and leads to labeling, self-loathing and a whole raft of preventable problems.

Of course, where an act is performed upon another person, there must be legal lines drawn, and age is one objective measure.  But a 16 y.o. guy making out with his 15 y.o. girlfriend is a world apart from a mature adult enticing a 9 y.o. into his car...

This thread is disturbing. I suggest anyone who agrees with me to quit looking at it. If Guard feels he must edit of erase, he will. In the meantime, I am out of this discussion for two reasons:

1- I do not believe it is going anywhere real but just arguing about theoretical badness and theoretical halocha. and

2 - It is weird, and i have some pizza to eat downstairs.

Love all you goofballs,

Dov

My friend, your story is very simular to mine. I too was arrested for posession of child pornography.I was a health care professional and a college instructor who has lost my professional license. I spent 19 months in federal prison and now trying to keep my family together , I have  went through all my retirement funds and only recieving food stamps. My wife has multible health issues and is is trying to get disibilty. I have been looking for any kind of work but this market is very difficult
This is by far the lowest I'v felt in my life. As you have said the restrictions of supervised release and having to register as a sex offender has severly restricted my life. I am unable to even return to the home with my family where I have lived for over 20 years/
( I am currently challinging the cty restriction). I am forced to live in a1 room 25 miles away and return for visits.
I have termendous guilt for what I have put my family through this past 3 years and what they must continue to endure as we move forward. I have only been home 7 weeks but I feel like my life will NEVER be " normal" again.
I hope if there is anyone out there going down that dark road , PLEASE get help and don't make the same mistake I  have made in my life. I never thought my actions would have a ripple effect.
I know Hashem has been a guiding force with me through this- for a horrible situtuation I know things went so much better than ever expected- from the begining even to the prison that I was sent to. I know Hashem has shown  me a great deal through this about my self, and I  must also believe that he has a plan for how all this going to turn out. The hardest part is to continueing to put all my faith in his plan and to accept the way he plans for this to play out and not how I expect it to work out,

Shalom Alecham
Yitzack

Ok, honestly you have an interesting story, more-so than the rest of us. OK people start minding your own business, and work on yourself so you never get there!

ChaimChuna, as far as you are concerned, start reading through the GYE materials. It will give you a structured basis on which to base your recovery.    Step 1 should be doable now, in addition to a filter...etc        Then comes step 2.

So as you said, if you want recovery, than let's star working at it!



This isn't CNN, stop the stories, and for a short period of time, evryone should get back to work!  Not everybody gets this kind of welcome, and honestly it's no so welcoming.

ChaimChuna, your turn to talk.      Sheeesh    Where are you holding i the handbooks?

Old friend wrote on 25 Jul 2011 05:48:


Ah - very, very true and insightful.

So few people get a good 24-point, boldfaced welcome nowadays.

We must all work together to rectify this.