Spent the year in Israel, and realized that I needed serious guidance to help stop masturbation. After I got back, I spent about an hour on google looking for a site like this, b"H I found it.

I understand the damage that masturbation causes. I realize that it erases all progress one has made towards coming closer to ה׳ (comparisons can be drawn between this אבר and an etch-a-sketch). I know that this addiction won't subside, even after marriage.
The problem is, it's hard to not get stimulated in America, with billboards, magazines by the checkout counter (not even THOSE magazines, but the ones that are nearly equivocal that are out in the open, with people whose lives seem to be centered around wearing a bikini). I haven't given up sports, but I can't get through two pages without some model in some advertisement for athletic shoes, boasting her bikini-ready body, for whateve reason). I'm even on a hiatus from secular books, since there are many times that authors feel it's appropriate to pepper sex scenes into any story.
Every day I daven to become closer to ה׳, but im too close to slipping. I've been dry since before shavuous, but over the last week I've still indulged in fantasizing and purposefully not averting my eyes. I've even come to touch myself, with the intention of stopping beforehand (yes, I've fallen for this one before, I know prerequisites mean nothing to someone in the middle, and I know that even touching without ש״ז is אסור), and I know of the slippery slope.

I'd describe myself as modern-orthodox, in the sense that I am unabashedly American (well, maybe a little abashed) but still try to keep all the mitvzos and strive to be close to ה׳. I don't think I'm a terrible person, I just know thatch can't accomplish my goals while still suffering from this addiction.
I would really appreciate any guidance from people who were in similar situations. I've been doing it since I was 14, and during some summers would do it 3 times daily. I have since given up aimlessly surfing online and tv (with exception of occasional sports games). Still, even without these "accelerants", I am prone to fantasizing. Although, most of the fantasizing is really just guised yearning for female affection, which I have no outlet for (I don't talk to girls). Part of me thinks that a lot of the sexual anxiety will be released after I find my wife. I'm not advocating for myself to stop holding myself back from indulging myself with jumping off the wagon, I'm just wondering if it's anyone here knows what I'm talking about, and can tell me if I'm right or wrong about this.

Thanks to anyone who wishes to help me.
Special request- I know that we're all on the same team/boat, but I would heavily rather if all te replies were kept... Modern orthodox. I don't hate chareidim, I just think that I personally would be able to accept advice more easily if I knew the advice was coming from someone who actually understood where I was coming from better. Even if you pretend to be modern orthodox, that'd still be preferable. And yes, I'll try to remember I'm a "pitele yid" anyhow.
Every day I daven

Hello MyBad -

After reading your post the first thing that jumps out at me is you realize you have a problem and how real it is. This site is doing an amazing job helping Jews at every stage in their addiction to women, porn, and improper thoughts overcome it and become better people and Jews.
Guard will give you the welcome package and some of the others on the site will help you navigate through.
You are correct that the desire does not subside after you get married. You will be doing yourself, your future wife, and kids a favor by getting this straightened out before you do meet her.

I am 26. Have had this problem for years. My wife just found out about it because I posted a whole history of myself and my urges. This happened 72 hours ago and it was the best thing that has happened to me in the past 26 years.
Let me just say that whatever sect people answer you from be receptive. I realize you are MO but treatment for this does not depend of where you came from. All basic human instinct (at least for males) is the same. We even have a Muslim who came onto the site recently to get help. No one is asking you to put on a black hat or a shtreimel to help you purge yourself from the evil inclination. They are just speaking as humans first and as Jews that want a relationship with God.
You will do great here!
Ninety

Thanks for the reply ninety,

There's a part of me that thinks that at least some of the reason for idly fantasizing comes from loneliness. While I know that a porn addict wouldn't be able to just go cold turkey, wouldn't the constant הרהורים subside just a little bit?

and for the record, I didn't intend to be standoffish. I wasn't trying to say that I can't learn from charedim, I simply meant that it's easier to completely disassociate from advice if one sees a disconnect between himself and the one giving the advice. I don't know how to describe it, probably because I'm at least partially in the wrong, but that's how I feel right now. I know everyone here has a common goal, of getting over their issues an helping others with their issues.

Thanks again, and hatzlacha rabaH,

MB

I did not see anywhere that a porn addict cannot stop cold turkey. It is different than substance abuse in that our bodies are noy physically dependant of these images.

What I have found and what others have said is that until day 14 of staying clean its real tough (day 7-14 especially). After that it gets progressively easier.

Take Dov for example. He was addicted for 10 years after he got married (you can see his story on "successes" on the GYE landing page). He is now clean for 13 years now with the help of his wife and following the steps.

Many on this site are clean for 2 or 3 years. It can be done. You just have to have the drive to do it. As the Gemara says "there is a small limb on a person.. If you feed it it starves for more.. If you starve it it is satisfied.." And its not referring to your feet.

Best,

ninety

Mybad wrote on 26 Jun 2011 04:43:



Don't worry, I am not giving you any advice - I am not qualified to give any, anyhow.




May I welcome you to the GYE Forum, though? I am one of those whom you would refer to as 'chareidim', although it is kinda weird for a too-frum chareidi to have his brain full of such thoughts, images, & fantasies.... but reading your initial post I felt a kinship & love towards you. When I reached the last paragraph in which you state your preference those feelings intensified! ....and this was even though I am included in the exclusion list ( :o )!!!!

After all, I do identify with your feelings. I am also somewhat recalcitrant in accepting advice from people whom I feel don't understand where I am coming from. It is difficult to swallow it all, bait, hook, & sinker - at least in the beginning. As time goes on & you become more acclimated to the culture of GYE Recovery, this attitude might change. Please remain sufficiently open-minded for this to have a possibility of happening....



Can we be just plain friends?

Ninety-when I said cold turkey, I meant more along the lines of not having a teivah for it. Although it seems from you and reading around here that it would still be very har to go into a marriage with the mindset of quitting altogether an sticking to it.

Rarav hatzadik- eek, I feel squirmish. I really should have rethought the contingency regarding chareidim. Thank you for taking what I said in stride (even more than that, but putting a positive spin on it).
Honestly, I now can see that the our situations can't possibly be all that different.
Btw, I come from a chareidi-ish family, it's nit like I have animosity towards a certain sect of frum Jews.


In any event, is there really any advice on this matter besides:
1. Stay strong
2. Stopping will be for the better
3. The שכר will outweigh the physical/mental ענד of restraint
4.the problem won't go away without working on it.

MB,

You touched on a lot of the right ideas in your introductory post.

Even without the billboards, the problem still exists in our heads.  The problem isn't so much what's out THERE, but it's what's INSIDE US.

Also, forget all the frummy stuff.  We're not bad people who have to be good.  Rather, we're addicted, which means we have a sickness and we're trying to get well.  And, it IS a chemical dependency.  Sexual stimulation sets off some sort of reaction in our brain, some sort of pleasure-inducing chemicals, dorphines or something like that, and we have become addicted to them.  We, unlike non-addicts, are never satisfied with one dose, but rather crave more and more and MORE!  Just like other addicts, without treatment, we will need ever increasing doses to get our fix; more excitement, more risk, more involved.

You also noticed that you think part of your problem is loneliness.  So, you've hit on something there, too.  But, I don't mean that you're lonely because you're not married and not having s*x, and if you were married and were having s*x you wouldn't be lonely.  Plenty of people here are married, etc, and still addicted (I'm one of them).  I might add, still feeling lonely, too.

What I mean is, our real problem, and our main focus, shouldn't be on whether or not we're m*sturbating or looking at p*rn.  Our acting out is only our SYMPTOM; it's our solution in a strange sort of way.  We're in emotional pain and so we reach for our addiction, our pain-killer, our drug of choice.

What is the pain?  Loneliness is one, we're out of touch with real people in our lives.  Another culprit is fear--living in the future and trying to manage outcomes that are not within our control.  Another culprit is resentment--living in the past, which we also can't do anything about.

When we work on these things, trying to stay focused on the present, and only on the part of the present where it's our responsibility to make an effort, and when we try to be connected to real people in real relationships (friends, and family)--when we can focus on being more of service to others, then we start to feel less pain.  Then, we just don't have so much of a need for that pain-killer anymore.

That was just a few ideas for you.  Thought maybe you would find them helpful.

--Eye.

Dear MB,

I also noticed you didn't get one of these yet, the GYE welcome packet.  Thought you'd appreciate it:

We're all in the same boat here. Tzuras Rabim Chatzi Nechama   Once you've arrived, there's no turning back. Everyone here will just grab a hold of you and pull you up with them!

GYE Program in a Nutshell: (Right Click the link and press "Save Link/Target As" to save the PDF file to your computer).

'Guard Your Eyes' offers a unique approach to helping people by recognizing that there are many different levels in the struggle for "Shmiras Ainayim" and "Shmiras Habris". After studying the experience of hundreds of religious strugglers over the past few years, we put together the suggestions and recommendations that we feel are best for the various levels. We divided the tools, features and services that GYE offers into 8 different levels. This "GYE Program in a Nutshell can help people quickly identify at what level of the struggle they are at, and which tools and features would help them most at their particular level.

Here are some quick things you can do to help you jump straight into recovery:

1) Make sure to install a strong filter. It will be almost impossible to break free of this while having all the garbage within a mouse click away. See this page for one good filter option, along with instructions on how to install it best – and give away the password to our "filter Gabai"… See this page for another 20 (or so) filter ideas and information… We also highly advise installing "Reporting Software" such as webchaver.org to give you some accountability, because filters alone are usually not sufficient and they can often be bypassed.

2) Join the daily Chizuk e-mail lists to get fresh chizuk every day.

3) Scientific studies have shown that it takes 90 days to change a neural thought pattern that was ingrained in the brain through addictive behaviors. Did you join the 90 day chart on-line? Sign up over here.

4) Post away on this forum! You will get tons of daily Chizuk and support. This disease can't be beat alone. It works best when you get out of isolation!

5) GuardYourEyes also offers many free anonymous phone conferences where you can join a group of other frum Yidden, along with an experienced sponsor. See www.guardyoureyes.org > Tools > Phone Conferences for many different options. Our conferences are taking place every day, morning, noon and night… Joining a phone group would be a tremendous step in the right direction for you and help you learn freedom from this addiction. Not only will you learn the secret of the 12-Steps – which is known to be the world's most powerful program for beating addiction having helped millions world wide, but the daily call will be another way of GETTING OUT OF ISOLATION and connecting with others who are going through what you are.

6) If you need more general guidance, write to our e-mail helpline at gye.help@gmail.com or call our hotline at 646-600-8100.

7) Download and read the "Guard Your Eyes Handbook". This handbook outlines the GYE approach in detail, and makes our network much more effective and helpful for people. The handbook has two parts:

A) The first part, "Attitude & Perspective", details 30 basic principles to help us maintain the proper attitude and perspective on this struggle. Here are some examples: Understanding what we are up against, what it is that Hashem wants from us, how we can use this struggle for tremendous growth, how we can deal with bad thoughts, discovering how to redirect the power of our souls, understanding that every little bit counts, learning how to bounce back up after a fall, and so on and so forth…

The second part, "The 18 Tools", detail suggested tools and techniques, in progressive order, beginning with the most basic and fundamental approaches to dealing with this addiction, and continuing down through increasingly earnest and powerful methods. No matter what level our addiction may have advanced to, we will be able to find the right tools to break free in this handbook!

Hatzlacha!

--Eye.

Mybad wrote on 26 Jun 2011 18:01:

No need to feel squirmish. You completely misunderstood me!

I was NOT trying to say that you are wrong in making that request at all. I did not intend to 'put a positive spin on it'. I was being honest. (You will learn soon enough; honesty is a MAJOR component of that GYE culture I spoke about.) I really do/did feel a resistance to accepting from people whom I felt do not understand where I am coming from.....





Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 26 Jun 2011 14:54:

Mybad wrote on 26 Jun 2011 18:01:

WOW!!!

You are quick!!!!  ;D ;D ;D







So, you have not answered:
Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 26 Jun 2011 14:54:

Welcome, MB!

Rav Hershel Schachter used the Chazon Ish, ZT"L, as an example of true Modern Orthodoxy: absolutely committed to Halacha, and looking at all modern inventions and ideals from the lense of Torah (this is a paraphrase, not an exact quote).

Mybad wrote on 26 Jun 2011 18:01:



Hey MyBad -

If you are looking for a magic pill or a drug that will kill your endorphines and take away the desire for porn and sex you came to the wrong site. In fact this is also the wrong religion for that thought process.

Your battle is real and will remain with you until you die. It can be the best thing for you in your conquer your desire and it could be the worst thing for you if you don't. What this site sets out to do is help you conquer your desires for lust in an appropiate way.

You ask if there is anything else aside from the 4 that you mention that can be used to help battle lust. I would say viewing the Hashgacha in your life and connecting through it with Hashem will help. If you can do that when fighting off porn you are doing it for yourself and for Someone that you have more of a relationship with because you focused on the good he provided for you.

Let me give you one example of what Hashgacha was provided for me and I still use it until today to connect with Hashem.

About 5 years ago I went onto this frum chat room where I met a girl. Our speaking eventually turned into meeting and in minutes that turned into the worst sins imaginable (not all the way.. but 98% of the way).

After this was going on for about a few months and I was falling like a rock off a cliff, she decided she wanted to go to Israel for the better part of a year. When she left I knew 2 things.

1) I was not marrying her
2) If she came back to America and I was not yet engaged or married my chances of getting married and raising a family would evaporate

I started dating and dated hoping to meet my Kalla before she came home. I will say that when she was in Israel I was not speaking with her constantly (so I was fair in the dating process).

I was not having hatzlacha finding a girl and she had her flight scheduled for the next week. I knew that it was too late and if she would come home I would not have the strength to say no and never meet up with her for some quick physical pleasure.

I prayed and said "I dont know how You will do it, just please dont let me get back into this trap." I repeated this prayer sincerely over and over again.

Anyhow a day before her scheduled flight she had was admitted to the hospital where she was forced to stay in Israel for sometime. By the time she got back to America I was engaged and had the will power to say that I will not go see her. Has she come back a day earlier I would have fallen again, again, again, again and again.

If that is not Hashgacha I do not know what is. It is impossible to say it was chance especially how the timing worked out.

It is strange but when I was G-d to show himself to me a bit more it often helps for me to go back to that time in my life and I see how He orchestrated this whole thing to help me.

Best,

ninety

Thanks, I'm liking the input/guidance.

Eye-you must be right, because everything you say really fits with my situation, in terms of fear of what's out of our control and livon in the past.hopefully I can start building my current relationships with others (I'm also a recovering cynic, and cynics tend to be very closed off from others). But your first point, about what's inside my head already, probably hit home the most; it's true that outside stimulants usually aren't even necessary.

ninety- if it wasn't for hashgacha, I wouldn't have felt a need to stop. I'm sure, though, that more of a focus on ה׳ during the hard times would help immensely, but once you get hit with that feeling, the יצר הרע can so easily parry any attempt to try to focus on anything besides furthering you to feed your sexually starved body (these are my יצר הרע׳s words, not mine)

Yosef hatzadik- we weren't friends already? and even if you did agree with me about only being advised by those who know what you're going through, there was a צד for you to get angry. That's what I meant by positive spin.

When looking for a website dealing with these matters, I was looking for maybe an article or two, maybe I could have found a site where a rabbi gave his email address an answered questions, but fund a site, where notnonly are there hundreds of people in my position, but hundreds more who WERE, and have battled through it, and STILL, after they're out of the red, stick around on the site to help others, and share their battle-tested midsets... itd a true testament for yiddishkeit. I just want to say thank you to everyone on this site, for being real ambassadors of torah.

You should really check out the other threads on this forum. Peoples stories are really enlightening and help put your struggles in perspective.

One thought that was spoke a lot about when I first signed up on the forum (1.5 years ago) was wanting to stop. Even though now you don't want to view porn are you really ready to kiss it goodbye. Are you really ready to say I NEVER want to see that again.

Also you should start keeping a count. What are you up to already?

ninety

Mentally, I never want to masturbate again. And when not in the eat of the moment, I can give 100 reasons why i never should again. But I know that it's silly to think that I won't be on the brink of breaking my streak later on. Although, if I did go through with it, I know I would be really down on myself (this is close enough to a pun for me to say npi)

I'm into my 21 day of being שומר הברית. That comes close to tripling my previous high in over 5 years. The worst of it seems over,it was really touch and go (it's not me, it's these weird expressions) about a week ago, days 13-15.

I will keep reading other stories on the website, but this really seems like something that one can get into, and the next thing they know, it's 3:30 a.m.,
and beyond my streak
Of 20 days, I have a minyan streak to watch out for as well (I'm sure these two are closely related, and I've been lousy at both all throughout my teens)

and again, thank you for your insights.

Hi my name is......                        I'm 17 and I cant stop being motzi zera i think we are a little in the same boat.there is 1 thing i have been tryimg and helps alot.The taphsic method (check out the sight you'll find it)it stops me alot of times.Its basically where you accept upon yourself to (for ex.)if i give in i'll fast for 12 hours.I hope that can help you.
      On a different note I really agree with you it's really almost impossible not to be turned on by just walking in the street.My main problem is my mom lets me watch movies and I cant hold myself back.They really are horrible(even in cartoon of bugs bunny!!!!!there were horrible pictures).Especially now in the summer you cant walk outside without burning ur eyes. Please help me and I hope you'll be okay. Thanx