Shalom,
I've joined the daily e-mail list and gotten on the 90 day chart (well not actually on the chart, but signed up).  I've been reading the e-mail's as frequently as possible, and I'm trying to understand the idea of not letting the yetzer hara make me depressed after every time I fall, but I don't quite understand how to prevent that.  Whenever I fall, if I try to get right back up and press on, I feel like I'm shrugging off the problem, and I get numb.  But if I allow the yetzer to get me down, then the depression runs its course, I never feel better, I get to that same numb feeling, and I end up falling again.

I know it's a life-long process, but I simply want to do better.  The only problem is, I THINK I want to get better, but when I'm faced with the temptation, I seem to completely forget that desire to live a clean and modest life, and I end up shooting myself in the foot.  What's worse is, because I go through this process of wanting to get better, forgetting, and then falling again, I end up thinking horrible things like, "maybe, deep down, I don't want to stop," or, "I guess I don't love Hashem as much as I thought," or even, "I want to repent, but I don't know if I truly can.  How can I truly resolve not to do this again when past experience has told me that I will?"  With all of these thoughts and feelings, the only comprehensive prayer I can utter is "Tatti... I want to want to get better.  I want to do real, lasting teshuvah, but I'm so weak.  Where are you, and why are you letting this happen?  I know all things come from you for a reason.  What are you trying to tell me?"

ill live the help for the mevinim, but tell me whats your nick? who is meshuge ?

Welcome to our community, you have finally come home!

We're all in the same boat here. Tzuras Rabim Chatzi Nechama   Once you've arrived, there's no turning back. Everyone here will just grab a hold of you and pull you up with them!

GYE Program in a Nutshell: (Right Click the link and press "Save Link/Target As" to save the PDF file to your computer).

'Guard Your Eyes' offers a unique approach to helping people by recognizing that there are many different levels in the struggle for "Shmiras Ainayim" and "Shmiras Habris". After studying the experience of hundreds of religious strugglers over the past few years, we put together the suggestions and recommendations that we feel are best for the various levels. We divided the tools, features and services that GYE offers into 8 different levels. This "GYE Program in a Nutshell can help people quickly identify at what level of the struggle they are at, and which tools and features would help them most at their particular level.

Here are some quick things you can do to help you jump straight into recovery:

1) Make sure to install a strong filter. It will be almost impossible to break free of this while having all the garbage within a mouse click away. See this page for one good filter option, along with instructions on how to install it best – and give away the password to our "filter Gabai"… See this page for another 20 (or so) filter ideas and information… We also highly advise installing "Reporting Software" such as webchaver.org to give you some accountability, because filters alone are usually not sufficient and they can often be bypassed.

2) Join the daily Chizuk e-mail lists to get fresh chizuk every day.

3) Scientific studies have shown that it takes 90 days to change a neural thought pattern that was ingrained in the brain through addictive behaviors. Did you join the 90 day chart on-line? Sign up over here.

4) Post away on this forum! You will get tons of daily Chizuk and support. This disease can't be beat alone. It works best when you get out of isolation!

5) GuardYourEyes also offers many free anonymous phone conferences where you can join a group of other frum Yidden, along with an experienced sponsor. See www.guardyoureyes.org > Tools > Phone Conferences for many different options. Our conferences are taking place every day, morning, noon and night… Joining a phone group would be a tremendous step in the right direction for you and help you learn freedom from this addiction. Not only will you learn the secret of the 12-Steps – which is known to be the world's most powerful program for beating addiction having helped millions world wide, but the daily call will be another way of GETTING OUT OF ISOLATION and connecting with others who are going through what you are.

6) If you need more general guidance, write to our e-mail helpline at gye.help@gmail.com or call our hotline at 646-600-8100.

7) Download and read the "Guard Your Eyes Handbook". This handbook outlines the GYE approach in detail, and makes our network much more effective and helpful for people. The handbook has two parts:

A) The first part, "Attitude & Perspective", details 30 basic principles to help us maintain the proper attitude and perspective on this struggle. Here are some examples: Understanding what we are up against, what it is that Hashem wants from us, how we can use this struggle for tremendous growth, how we can deal with bad thoughts, discovering how to redirect the power of our souls, understanding that every little bit counts, learning how to bounce back up after a fall, and so on and so forth…

The second part, "The 18 Tools", detail suggested tools and techniques, in progressive order, beginning with the most basic and fundamental approaches to dealing with this addiction, and continuing down through increasingly earnest and powerful methods. No matter what level our addiction may have advanced to, we will be able to find the right tools to break free in this handbook!

May Hashem be with you!

meshugoyim wrote on 31 May 2011 04:29:


Hello, and welcome.  As you know, you are in good company!

You are 100% right that it's the Yetzer Horo getting you down - this is his best trump card, his dirtiest trick, and his biggest nuke.  Lots of people here have wonderful ideas about addressing this, which is 90% of the battle for some people.

Also, I believe you don't just think you want to get better - you do want to get better.  But then that gets covered up by a truckload of schmutz "in the moment".  Because wanting isn't enough.  But don't mistake that for not truly wanting.  I could really, really want to be rich.  If I don't go out and do it, it won't happen.  Do I not want it enough?  Perhaps I just don't have the tools yet.  The difference between recovery and becoming a millionaire is that recovery tools are actually available to everyone, with lots of hard work. (Ki karov elecha hadavar me'od b'ficha uvilvavcha laasoso)


I noticed your small prayer.  The most basic form of Tefillah is asking Hashem for your needs.  This is important and special for a few reasons - one is that you are admitting that everything comes from Him, and that you are at his mercy.

Your tefillah addresses Hashem, but not as a Master and Provider of everything.  If you read it carefully - "father, I want" - you express your lack, but do not make a request.  Except for answers.  It seems more of a question.  Would an answer assist more than His help?

I'm being a little unfair to you here, and I would ask you to forgive me.  I'm reading into something that you probably paraphrased.  It's just interesting that you wrote the tefillah in the way that you did.  you probably actually ask for his help each time.  But what you wrote scans more as a "why me" than a humble submission to Hashem.  Therefore, I used it as a springboard to chat about Tefillah.  It also sounds (I'm not sure - correct me if I am wrong) that you get frustrated or angry with Hashem in this regard.

Here is a suggestion - why not try making Hashem a partner with you?  Learn from the prototypical tefillah - פּוֹתֵֽחַ אֶת יָדֶֽךָ, וּמַשְׂבִּֽיעַ לְכָל חַי רָצוֹן - an expression of bare need, a request to fulfill that need, and an implied powerlessness of your own.  And don't ask why.  That's His problem.  It's a big, huge distraction.  Like asking why one is poor, hungry or sick (R"L).  It breeds depression and self-pity.

That you try so often, and you want so much means that with the right tools and loads of work, you'll do fine.  Welcome, and don't be put off my style - I'm still learning to deal with people as humans

Welcome you have come to the right place

As TJ pointed out its not enough to "want it" it’s like having sweet dreams, you realy have to do something for it to make it work.
The first step would be to properly read through the handbook and to implement its tools into your live. Also try getting a sponsor or partner with whom you can be in contact on a regular basis.
The point of not getting down after a fall is very important but it's just to encourage you to go ahead with your recovery and not part of the recovery process.
The inyan with tefilla is extremely important and is also part of the 12 step program.

Stick around, as you are in good company.
We all are in this together.

meshugoyim wrote on 31 May 2011 04:29:


I totally relate.  When I was still looking at p... and lusting thoughout the day, I was so good in so many other areas of yiddishkeit.  But about this, I simply put Hashem out of my mind, until later, when I felt guilty, and wished I could stop.  Every morning I said "v'lo sosuru" with kavana, but inevitably fell.  An addict is a bissel meshuga.  And so, when Lust knocks, I ask Hashem to restore me to sanity.

When you say "maybe deep down, I don't want to stop" etc. that's the addict inside you talking.  This addict doesn't want to stop, he is fearful of being cut off from his drug.  Can you say, "I don't want to lust?"  Saying it (especially to Hashem) will help you internalize it.

You also mention being "faced with the temptation."  An addict cannot face temptation.  We must avoid it entirely, to the utmost of our abilities.

Regarding maybe not loving Hashem as much as you thought, remember that true love comes from giving.  And from appreciation of what Hashem gives to you.  As you overcome this stumbling block, and give to Hashem your true self, your love for and connection to Hashem will grow.

You're in the right place and you now have access to the right tools.  You want to be sane, to be a true, consistent eved Hashem.  And you will be.
Hatzlacha,
Alex

Thanks guys,
I'm encouraged at the amount of feedback just within 24 hours of posting.  TJ, your reading into my tefillah was absolutely not by accident.  Now that I'm thinking about it, I've been having a tendency to feel sorry for myself, and as a result, my hitbodedut is affected.  Thank you for pointing that out, because frequently, instead of seeking partnership and help from Heaven, I simply spoke in a way that was already defeated.  I thank you for your advice.

I feel like this forum is going to be a huge help.  I've already started to read the GYE literature and I'm so refreshed to know I'm among fellow strugglers.  I appreciate all the feedback.