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Im Paga be’cha menuval zeh, mushchei'hu le- BEIS HAMEDRASH! This board is for divrei Torah relating to our struggle with the Yetzer Hara, from the entire spectrum of Tanach, Chazal, Mussar and Chassidus. On this board there will be no posts about personal struggles and no debates. Only TORAH CHIZUK.
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TOPIC: Shalom Bayis 1425 Views

Shalom Bayis 10 Mar 2010 22:05 #57426

  • shemirateinayim
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This entire thread is cut-paste from my thread balabatim's forum. But I hope to add at least one more installment.

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Re: Shalom Bayis 10 Mar 2010 22:05 #57427

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R desler in his 'kuntrus hachesed' (chelek 1 of michtav maEliyahu) wxplains how a human cannot solely be a taker. We where created to give. This midda is so burnt into us, that america has created a new concept of doggy spas, acupuncturists, therapists, masouse, and hair stylists for your precious little pooch. And the cause for this insanity, is that too many wealthy americans do not want the responsibilities of parenthood. They still seek to party and have their fun.

        But every person has an innate and burning desire to be meitiv to another, and one must therefor find an outlet to express it. Sadly for many americans, this outlet happens to wagg it's tail, and lick the tzoah from it's tush. That and a designer sweater.

        But even when we seek to fulfill that desire, we often fail to realize that a person may not want our help. Are we truly benefiting them, or are we stuffing our agenda down their throughts? This point applies itself in many venues. When deciding for our children, are we choosing what is BEST for them, or are we choosing what we want from and of them. Every parents has dreams and aspirations for their children, but sometimes by trying to fulfill them, we fail to realise who our children realy are, and what is in their best interests. {read beshaim R Yakov Kaminetsky}

          In the goyisha world, there is a going joke of how people buy their spouces a gift that they have always wanted. Like a bowling ball, a new football,  or an artscroll shas (oorah joke)! People can even sincerely go shopping for someone else, and pick a present that fits their tastes, only to discover that the intended recipiatnt 'hates it'. What does this trend stem from? We mistake our benevolence, with the true needs of the recipiant. I recently went shopping for a disabled family member. At first I approached the men's department looking for things that would fit their age and complexion. But after my initial picking, I realized that there was only 1 thing they could even possibly consider donning on their person. So I walked through the entire department again, and picket what they would like. Honestly I hated the choices, and felt it would make them look like a dufus...but that is what they wanted. As it turned out, they loved my choices, and despised the one shweatshirt I was't sure about (eventualy it bacame their favorite).

          The litmus test, in determining whether we are merely satiating our need to be maitv, as uposed to truly striving to better the circumstances or provide pleasure to another, is when their interest conflict with ours. Example; A close chaver comes to yerushalayim to visit, and although he tells you in advance of his upcoming visit, he does not plan on eating a meal by your house. It hurts, but why? Because you wanted to show your hakaras hatov? True, but that is merely an expression of your desire to be meitiv, and in this case it may have been better for him to eat elsewhere.

          There is nothing that your spouce ows you. [Idealy] marriage is meant for both spouces to be meitiv, without seeking anything in return. To give without limit, for the benefit of the one receiving.But if we are only giving, how do we allow our wives to cook, clean, and run our homes?

        Allow me to pose a dilema. A grandmother, who is strapped for cash offers to treat their granchildren. She is ready to splurge far beyond her means, and will likely skimp on medications to cover the cost of the presents. Now what do you do? To refuse, you will only cause pain and agony, withholding a bubby from showing her love an affection to her aineklach. But by accepting, you are indirectly allowing her to harm herself. ...you simply must accept, and find a way to minimize the harm incured (e.g. offer to pickup her meds, and pay for it yourself). So too, by making ourselves into a mekabeil, we allow our spouce to also be a meitiv. Although we are taking, which sounds like the wrong derech, in truth we are doing what is best for our wife,in allowing her to fulfill her needs.  Sound farmiliar (ramcha"l).
           
           

*this holds true, even to singles. However when a person reaches marrageable age, he is overwhelmed by his urge to be maitiv. Yet another ploy in G-Ds foolproof plan of procreation (unless we subsitute an eizer kenegdo with "aizy" from the kennel
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Re: Shalom Bayis 10 Mar 2010 22:06 #57428

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Overheard at the lunch table:
        R Noach Weinberg gives us a fascinating tool in shalom bayis.
A woman's desire is to make her husband happy.


Pretty simple, no? The question is, what do I do with this?

    As I wrote from R Dessler, we aren't supposed to expect ANYTHING from our wives. She never signed a kesubah, nor where we makneh ourselves over to her reshus. And it's no wonder that although the reform movement will "bind" a man with a wedding ring, they have yet to contrive a kesubah of a woman's obligations (if they did, what would it say?  ;D).

      So how do we "ask" anything of our wives? Either for the purpose of allowing them to express their need to be meitiv. Or, we can allow them to make us happy. Lemashal, if we like ice in our soda, and she knew that, she would start offering us ice cubes at every oppertunity. If she knew what type of shirts we liked, she would go to an extra 2 stores to look for them. All me have to do is make her feel, special when we receive it.  and they said married life is hard? (just kiddin)

      Let's apply this to a more difficult situation. I heard theis on a tape from either R Akiva Tatz or R Avigdor Miller. IF you cannot stand your wife's cooking. Either she adds too much salt, to little spice, or far to much "charcoal flavor". You cannot ever tell her, your food is terrible. Nor can you opt for take-out every meal. There has to be a way to fine-tune the food to your standards.

      When she finnaly does, albeit accidentaly, get it right.... c-o-m-p-l-i-m-e-n-t her. Mention how you like her 'new recepie'. "Is this medium rare? It has a very 'interesting' texture." If you add some doubt to you preffrece, in addition to discussing the meal, it may help soften the blow (if she realises that you never liked "overly-well done".         

    WARNING: don't be blunt about her cooking (if it can be called that). mishlei was written to teach fools to be cunning. An idiot speaks his mind, a wise person says nothing, or simply lies!*









* Although I could make this into a post onto itself, I like going onto tangents:
            R Avigdor miller has an entire tape on this issue. "Natural People" as he calls them, say what is on their mind. An "unNatural Person" says what it right. Ay, but you would never think of lieing to your eishes chayil? 

              Keitzad Merakdin Lifnei Hakalah? Beis sShamai says "kallah kemo shehiy", beis hillel says "kalah Naeh Vachasudah" (a beutifull and gracefull wife)      So what if she is an ugly, 'heavyset', mis-featured, acne-covered, facial haired, creature who hobbles down to the chupah on one leg???    WOuldn't it be an absolute sheker to tell the chassan "WoW"?    NOOOOOOOOO

            To say the truth of a kallahs flaws is SHEKER, and to praise her non-existant looks, is EMES! And thus, on a phylisiphical level "truth is relative". Say what hashem wants you to say.

              Incidentaly this also applies whenever someone buys anything he cannot return. Once he is stuck with it, praise the ma'alos, and don't mention the chesronos. Many people are oiyver on this with the simple line "You could have gotten a better deal".  oh yeh, and never tell that to your wife! Even if she could return it, is the pain you inflict worth those few bucks??
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Re: Shalom Bayis 10 Mar 2010 22:16 #57431

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This post is more for my personal records:
Books:
"The River, the Kettle, and the Bird"  by Rav Feldman, Shlita
"Dear Son" by R Elitahu Goldshmidt
"What did you say? : Making Yourself Understood in marriage" by Simcha Kohen (Bayit Hayehudi in Hebrew)
"Garden of Peace" by Rav Shalom Arush


Mp3 Shiurim:
http://www.happywife.com[/b]
http://odeo.com/episodes/22542474-The-Happy-Wife[/b]]http://odeo.com/episodes/22542474-The-Happy-Wife - probably the same thing, or a summary
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