BS"D

Gut woch dear friends,

Although the determination to stop begins to kick in. (meaning that I am very encouraged) Nevertheless I would like to ask a question see how you guys deal with it.

Being busy with the first seven steps for which I have a wonderful chavruseh (almost daily), being busy to get rid of the Tosfos Rid of our lives. The phantoms and demons of the past, present and future. What in my feeling the 12 steps don't take care of, if RID (Restlessness, Irritability and discontent) are caused by something you cannot and will not be able to eradicate. With people whom you've had fights or other problems you can deal with them.
The main cause for RID by me comes from the Gemorrah. On the one hand I really love it. It is mamish gevaltig. But on the other hand.... I feel so deficient. Trying to learn and not being able to translate a simple Rashi - which nobody seems to have a problem with.
The feeling that if I would have stayed in yenna welt I would have become an important member of society (being a university professor or reseacher). I also know that awaddeh, I can't be happy enough for being a frum Yid.
Just leave for a moment all these ideas. I am not yet at the madreiga and still do live from recognition.
In yenna welt I was considered something special, if not on the way to success in the Academical world.

I don't want to stop learning Gemorrah, if anything i want to master it. But it is soooo difficult.
How do the twelve steps relate to such a problem?

Levi

Funny you call it "yenne velt"... in our circles, we use that name for the world to come!
And there, being a professor will not be worth  two cents (in and of itself, anyway!).

The twelve steps is about getting rid of the ego.

It is not easy, but it is a wonderful way to live!

A person NEEDS to have a sipuk (enjoyment) from what he does. However, one does not need to have glamour or kovod to be successful and happy.

Hashem treasures your struggles with Gemara, and hopefully, with practice you will excel at it, or perhaps find a niche that you can excel in...

Hatzlacha and best wishes...
kutan

Yasher Koach thank you for answering, but  of course I know that torah is not about Kovod. That is not the problem I tried to address. What I meant to say, is that I need the recognition irrespective of the fact that my seichel knows that it is all nonsense.
Of course we are supposed to be boireach min Hakovoid, but if I look deep inside till the deepest layers of me I see that I am not holding there. I wish I could say it were so, but that is unfortunately not the case.
True this is of course a main part of my avoideh. But nevertheless, what I am getting at is this. Since my Restlessness, Irritability, Discontent stem from this place how in the twelve step program is it going to help me. This phantom will stay. Unless I will be something of a Talmid Chacham or at least content with my own accomplishments.

Besides the fact with yenner welt (the other world) I meant the western society world. That world which I left in the endeavour to become a Yid.

Kol Tuv
Levi

Well, questions like this are best discussed with someone wise (not me!) who knows you personally (again, not me!).
You would be surpised what a 5th step workthrough can accomplish on the 12 step program...!
But if the need for kovod is indeed integral to your psyche, then perhaps become the professor.... there are many frum, ehrlicheh professors who do a lot of good for klal yisroel!
Again, please, speak with a wise person who knows you... and if there is none, then... work on getting to know a wise person!

k

Hi R' Levi613,

I am new to the twelve steps myself and don't know enough to comment on it...

Interestingly I too have a RID issue with learning. Lately I learn Medrash, Drush, and other things that grab me....

I hear you very well regarding the recognition...

One things for sure though, I am glad you did not stay in Yenner Velt; we would have missed you here!!!!!

Levi613 wrote on 17 Oct 2010 00:52:


I think the simplest way to define RID is:  The feeling you get when you are trying to control something that is beyond your control.

Here, how does it fit to you gemara?  You say "I don't want to stop learning Gemorrah, if anything I want to master it."

First of all, are you learning because it's a mitzvah or to serve your Ego?  A Rav who had a profound impact on my life gave me this test to know if something is L'shma:  CAN YOU STOP IF YOU HAD TO?  Imagine a Rav you respect the most, someone you believe almost speaks with Ruach Hakodesh.  Now, imagine he tells you, "STOP LEARNING GEMARA, IT'S NOT YOUR PURPOSE IN LIFE."  How would you react?  Would you listen to him?  Would you feel happy and calm about it?

If you're like me, your first thought is probably, "But Torah is the most important mitzvah!  It's EVERYONE'S purpose in life."  Is it difficult, even, to accept this fictitious scenario?

Secondly, you say "If anything I want to master it."  What is your definition of "mastery."  I want to know all of shas and posking ba'al peh!  If that is your definition, and you're frustrated because you haven't gained this mastery yet, that means every single day you don't know shas and poskim ba'al peh is going to be another miserable day for you.

For me, I looked at my learning.  I set very low goals for myself.  My big dream was to finish Sha's mishnayos.  To learn it simply, only with the bartenura, and without asking too many questions about anything.  I figured I could handle 1 mishna each day--that was a goal-oriented project I could keep up, and I figured it would take me about 30 years to complete.  In the end, my learning grew, my background grew, my skills grew, and I finished in about 4 years.  Then, I moved on to Sha'as Gemara.  I started with only 1/4 of an amud each day.  I lost track of the exact details, but I think I started 7 years ago.  I have completed well over a seder of Shas already, and I'm moving along at about 1 amud/day.

I start where I feel COMFORTABLE, pushing myself beyond my limits, but only ever so slightly.  I think "Is this a plan I can keep up if I miss a day and have to catch up somewhere along the way."  That's how I set my goals. 

I have only come so far because I expected so little of myself.

I believed THIS was my purpose in learning;  not to STOP, but to swallow my pride and SLOW DOWN.  I believed this is what I had to do if I wanted to accomplish anything, no matter how stupid I felt sitting around learning Mishnayos when everyone else is spending all their time on fancy gemara pilpulim.


I hope this has been helpful,

  --Eye.

BH!!!

Thank G-d the Gemorah is difficult!
Do you really want to serve a G-d who is EASY to understand and master!

dov.ii