I had a slip today. I was in the library, checking out some material that I needed for a good reasons, and all of the sudden my eyes noticed a photography section. I then went on to look through some of the books, feeling like it was OK, because I was in public library. I wasn't OK of course, I was already acting out and didn't stop until after I saw numerous bad images.

I am in SAA where everybody gets to define their own sobriety. I have a pretty tight definition of sobriety (no masturbation, no purposely looking at any form of sexually explicit material etc) 

The last one is hard to define though... What is purposefully? What is considered sexually explicit? And I've been struggling to come up with a more precise definition for a while now.

On one side I don't want to leave any loopholes. On the other side, I don't want to be too hard on myself, and call every time that I am triggered a slip.

Where do you guys draw the line? How do you define your sobriety?

feedtherightwolf wrote on 17 May 2010 06:43:


I'm pretty new around here and there are other members who know much more and are much better than me for giving advice, but since I too have been thinking about this, I thought I'd share what has worked for me.

My definition of sobriety is feeling at peace with the world around me and the world inside me.  I draw the line at inappropriate images no matter where they may come from: immodestly dressed women riding the bus, paintings at a museum, magazine covers, advertisements, etc.

I have found that a huge help in breaking free from from lust, are acts of chesed, e.g. visiting patients at the hospital, Torah study and and reading Chofetz Chaim, and other books of mussar.

Kol tuv.

I think this question alone is a great act. I have been also asking, what is the line??? It is so hard also to ask, what is the line for procrastination? Which is my particular problem... Hm, it's not the only one. But at this point I am ready only to tackle the problem of procrastination and I am trying to guard myself there...
I think being on the guard and self-analysis is an important step in recovery. You writing what you did in the library is actually admiting the slip and that is great, Baruch Hashem, I think you are well on the path of recovery.

Well all this admiting, I must also confess, these thoughts are from "The First Day of the Rest of My Life"...

All the best!!!!

I'm new here too and was pondering the same question.

I think the line moves. It's probably dangerous to say I can do A,B and C but must stop at D.

Perhaps it's more like an American football match and the line needs to be pushed towards your ultimate goal. Once you win a small victory here, try move up elsewhere too - morals, anger etc.

Perhaps we think that looking at something is okay and it's on this side of the line, but it causes us to then take a tiny step and bam - we're on the wrong side being dominated by the offense.

We all know what is definitely wrong, but are unclear about the grey areas. Anything that may lead you to doing something that is definately wrong is wrong too.
Their team is totally random and each player has his own agenda. Here, our team has a common purpose, a common goal, lets win this match together!

SA defines breaking your sobriety as masturbation and sex outside your marriage.
Other groups like SLAA and SAA let you define your own bottom line. 

In either program that does not mean that you can look at porn and as long as you don't
masterbate you've not broken your bottom line.  Because you eventually will.  The point
is LUST, cunning, baffling and powerful... without help it is too much for us.

Just like in the Torah we erect (pardon the pun) fences so that we will not commit aveiros,
bottom lines are our fences that we put up around our disease so that we will not fall
off the slippery slope and down into our addictive cycle.

Our addict is telling us to call it a SLIP so we won't feel so ashamed.  Only a slip - I just
slipped halfway down an embankment toward destroying my sobriety and my sanity,
and that wasn't so bad because I picked myself up and can continue.  Either way,
SLIP OR FALL is a warning sign that something is not right.  We're resistant, irritable,
tired, resentment, angry, fearful.  This is what is important to explore, not the semantics
of fall vs. slip.  Aim for the stars - sanity and sobriety.

Elya

I agree with Elya, however, sometimes, like in the case of the library above, where one doesn't go and seek it out but sort of 'slipped' onto the bad stuff and can't stop right away... In such a case, as long as they didn't break SA's definition of sobriety, I'd call it just a slip...

However, if we intentionally try to seek out something that's not "technically" a fall, then Elya is 100% right. Lusting is lusting, and it's just a matter of time till we fall.

Hi I'm new to the forums. But with GD's help I have been sober one day at a time since joining SA at the end of Oct 2009.
SA has a definition of sobriety:
                  " any form of sex with one’s self or with partners other than the spouse is 
                    progressively addictive and destructive. We also see that lust is the driving
                    force behind our sexual acting out, and true sobriety includes progressive
                    victory over lust."
Since for me my thinking is diseased I can not think for myself in terms of my disease (ie. what the defintion of sobritey should be)
Therfore I am grateful to have a clear definition and I can follow those before me who adhere to the principles and steps of SA for without it I could watch my rationalizations come alive.

4 years clean, 15 years clean and sober, knowing that, for me, anytime I look outside myself, outside Hashem, for "that feeling," I am on dangerous ground. Right now I have started back on nicotine and caffeine, after years of being nicotine-free. I'm lying to my wife about it, and she knows...and she wants to leave me...the relationship I have with my wife is the relationship I have with Hashem. Honesty, Willingness, Service. I joined this site because I've got to get out of myself and back to living in recovery, one day at a time. I don't go to museums, I don't open art books, I don't look at or speak with women more than absolutely necessary, because I know what's waiting for me there...

Hi, I think this is very tough question. I was sure I AM sober for about 2 years for not masturbating, looking porno or touching any women except my wife. But then I inderstood, that I still doing something to feed my addiction and this is peeping at pretty women on the streets, looking for shorts, short skirts etc. So I understood, that I am NOT really sober.
So it is very personal, individual question. It's like to ask: Is one's house clean? For one - clean house means only clean floors, for other - shiny bathroom, for third - something else.
I also understood, that when one HAS to permit himself to do certain things by telling himself any kind of excuses, so these are the things that have to be stopped for one can freely say: I AM sober!
Unfortunately, I am still in it, and I feel that I am not ready to give it up.
Wishing you luck.