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Step #18 - Not sure I agree with it

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On this board, everyone is encouraged to share their journey through the 18 tools of the GYE handbook and get Chizuk and answers from everyone else here as well!

The GYE handbook provides a systematic framework for breaking free of this addiction. But just reading it alone won’t do very much if we don’t “work” the tools therein. So after reading through the GYE handbook once, we go back and start again from the beginning, this time taking it slowly and giving each tool a lot of careful thought. Have we tried the first few tools yet? What parts have we still not tried? Do we have questions, comments, doubts about any of the tools? Slowly but surely, tool by tool, day by day, the GYE handbook - together with the group support of this board - will provide you with the best framework possible for systematic growth and progress.

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TOPIC: Step #18 - Not sure I agree with it 1845 Views

Step #18 - Not sure I agree with it 15 Apr 2010 22:21 #61482

Halevi OFFLINE Fresh Boarder Karma: 0	Would you really recommend this as a last resort?
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Re: Step #18 - Not sure I agree with it 15 Apr 2010 22:25 #61487

dovinisrael OFFLINE Gold Boarder Posts: 229 Karma: -1	not sure which RESORT you are speaking about. but the next time I book an addiction I am not staying at the Gates of Gehinom!! forget it! what exactly is step 18?
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Re: Step #18 - Not sure I agree with it 17 Apr 2010 14:58 #61682

Halevi OFFLINE Fresh Boarder Karma: 0	chemical castration I think it should be removed from the booklet
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Re: Step #18 - Not sure I agree with it 17 Apr 2010 21:15 #61690

dovinisrael OFFLINE Gold Boarder Posts: 229 Karma: -1	ouch! i only did the beginners 12-step program. steps 13+ much be for the more serious minded.
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Re: Step #18 - Not sure I agree with it 18 Apr 2010 21:01 #61791

the.guard
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Halevi wrote on 15 Apr 2010 22:21:

Would you really recommend this as a last resort?

I happen to know some psychiatrists and doctors in Israel who recommend this as a first resort, not as a last resort. They say, "if you are plauged by sexual fantasy and obsessive behavior, why not get the shots and feel free?" There are almost no side effects (besides for intimacy issues with the wife, and even that can be adjusted to come to a balance), so why not?

I know one guy who was so happy to hear about these shots and was ready to get them, but his wife made a fuss and threatened to divorce him, which forced him to work on himself instead.

Obviously working on yourself through the first 17 tools of the handbook is the best, but if
a) a person still can't break free even after he's tried EVERYTHING (12 Steps, therapy, REHAB!!)
or
b) a person is in danger of harming others, such as pedophilic behavior, or SSA, or rape, etc..
then yes, this is a very important tool. What would you suggest dear Halevi in the cases of 'a' and 'b' above?

Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.

Last Edit: 18 Apr 2010 21:07 by .

Re: Step #18 - Not sure I agree with it 19 Apr 2010 10:06 #61844

Halevi OFFLINE Fresh Boarder Karma: 0	In the case of (b), sure, chemical castration is absolutely fine. By (a) my concern was mainly about disrupting home-life (but you intimated that that's not necessarily an issue). I would imagine that there could be a halachic issue as well but I doubt you would have written any of this without consulting with the appropriate authorities first.
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Re: Step #18 - Not sure I agree with it 20 Jun 2010 03:09 #71427

Dov
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The only guy who I know personally who has taken these shots (he was definitely harming others), kept acting out horribly anyway...just in a slightly different way than before.

Don't worry though, Halevi, these shots are only available through doctors and the fellow would have to go through a thorough medical and psych work-up of the person first - I assume. This means that his problem in all it;s inglorious details will be known by hos doc and probably others by then...not the same situation at all of the nice frummy sitting in his yeshivah office and compulsively looking at schmutz hour after hour and doing whatever else all in secret still. These heavy-duty guys are already out of the closet....

"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."

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Re: Step #18 - Not sure I agree with it 21 Jun 2010 21:27 #71594

the.guard
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Harvey (one of the founders of SA) mentioned in a talk I heard from him, how the shots sometimes can help someone who is a compulsive addict. For example, for someone who - when he gets a thought, he must act on it right away. The shots help that he now has a MOMENT before acting out to use the tools of the 12-Steps, or call someone, before he acts out. Used to be: Thought > Act out. Now it's: Thought > Moment > Tools.